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jOrgan

BrianS
Hi Sven,

After 3.20, have there been any new versions of jOrgan, and are you planning any new version and or new features for the new version?

Brian.
Regards,

BrianS
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Re: jOrgan

Sven Meier
Administrator
Hi Brian,

no new version is planned currently.

Have fun
Sven


On 19.12.2015 07:27, BrianS wrote:

> Hi Sven,
>
> After 3.20, have there been any new versions of jOrgan, and are you planning
> any new version and or new features for the new version?
>
> Brian.
>
>
>
> -----
> Regards,
>
> BrianS
> --
> View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/jOrgan-tp4662710.html
> Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user


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Re: jOrgan

Dr Mark Bugeja MD
In reply to this post by BrianS
Hi Brian,

Sorry for the late reply. I came across your post searching for possible new developments to jOrgan

There is a version 3.21 available but has been left in the beta phase for almost 2 years now.

If I remember well, Sven had stated that he has no more time to devote to this software but I may be wrong. I wonder whether it would be possible, or perhaps better put, whether Sven would give consent to the development of this wonderful and flexible software by someone else.

Regards
Mark

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Re: jOrgan

BrianS
It would be a sad day to see this wonderful piece of software die.
Regards,

BrianS
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Re: jOrgan

BrianS
In reply to this post by Dr Mark Bugeja MD
It would be a sad day to see this wonderful piece of software die.
Regards,

BrianS
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Re: jOrgan

eagles051387
In reply to this post by BrianS
I read on nabble the full context of this discussion, is the project looking for someone new to take over and maintain it as well as provide new releases etc?

Jonathan Aquilina

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 6:06 PM, BrianS <[hidden email]> wrote:
It would be a sad day to see this wonderful piece of software die.



-----
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BrianS
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Re: jOrgan

John Reimer
Administrator
eagles051387 wrote
is the project
looking for someone new to take over and maintain it as well as provide new
releases etc?
Until Sven makes his position clearer, we are simply playing a guessing game. I posted earlier in the year seeking some kind of small team to ensure the long-term future of jOrgan, but there was little response, apart from Jonathan's offer to host a website. Regarding future development, anyone with the right dedication and knowledge/skill etc. is free to download the source code and share their results with the rest of us. A place to start would be the Development page on the jOrgan Wiki. Presumably there would have to be some understanding established with the SourgeForge people, but I have no knowledge of such matters.

I might add that we shall be forever in debt to Sven for providing this quite remarkable program, but one can certainly understand his desire to be free of having to do further work on it, if that is how he feels about it.

John Reimer















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Re: jOrgan

eagles051387
I have some great news for all if interested. Seeing as Java is a programming language I do know I can offer more then just hosting of a website. I have servers I can host downloads website bug tracker etc. Sourceforge is a good place but I have seen some issues encountered by other projects i have worked with, in a nut shell some questionable practices by them.

Jonathan Aquilina

On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 7:02 AM, John Reimer <[hidden email]> wrote:
eagles051387 wrote
> is the project
> looking for someone new to take over and maintain it as well as provide
> new
> releases etc?

Until Sven makes his position clearer, we are simply playing a guessing
game. I posted earlier in the year seeking some kind of small team to ensure
the long-term future of jOrgan, but there was little response, apart from
Jonathan's offer to host a website. Regarding future development, anyone
with the right dedication and knowledge/skill etc. is free to download the
source code and share their results with the rest of us. A place to start
would be the Development page on the jOrgan Wiki. Presumably there would
have to be some understanding established with the SourgeForge people, but I
have no knowledge of such matters.

I might add that we shall be forever in debt to Sven for providing this
quite remarkable program, but one can certainly understand his desire to be
free of having to do further work on it, if that is how he feels about it.

John Reimer



















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J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning
reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
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Re: jOrgan

Dr Mark Bugeja MD
This post was updated on .
Jonathan,

My question would be: Do you have the time to dedicate to such an endeavour? I know you are always so busy with studies and work (and possibly social) commitments. As Jesus said, the spirit may be willing but the flesh is weak.

I and another person are willing to develop a new program along somewhat specific lines which would include the incorporation of the best features of jOrgan. Neither of us knows any programming and my partner is even willing to sponsor the software development but the person/s who volunteer will have to commit themselves with a legally binding contract with terms intended to protect the interests of all the parties engaged.

Regards
Mark
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Re: jOrgan

Pete Theisen
What? Legally binding? The open source software license makes legal
nonsense stuff largely unnecessary. Oh, you still can't go around
shooting people but . . .

On 07/23/2016 08:12 AM, Dr Mark Bugeja MD wrote:

> Jonathan,
>
> My question would be: Do you have the time to dedicate to such an endeavour?
> I know you are always so busy with studies and work (and possibly social)
> commitments. As Jesus said, the spirit may be willing but the flesh is weak.
>
> I and another person are willing to develop a new programme along somewhat
> specific lines which would include the incorporation of the best features of
> jOrgan. Neither of us knows any programming and my partner is even willing
> to sponsor the software development but the person/s who volunteer will have
> to commit themselves with a legally binding contract with terms intended to
> protect the interests of all the parties engaged.
>
> Regards
> Mark
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/jOrgan-tp4662710p4663267.html
> Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic
> patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are
> consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow,
> J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning
> reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>

--
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Pete
https://www.facebook.com/pete.theisen.5

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Re: jOrgan

eagles051387
In reply to this post by Dr Mark Bugeja MD
Good Afternoon Dr Mark,

I do have time to dedicate in my spare time I am working on my own projects and can set aside some time to work on bug fixes etc. In regards to paragraph two What you are describing goes against the spirit of open source. Nobody has to sign a leagally binding agreement when working with open source software. If you like I can provide you full details of the open source license that jorgan uses. What you are saying is usually done when a proprietary company takes over an open source project one such example would be Oracle and mysql (database software).  Oracle has added parts of their proprietary DB aspects to the open source so you need to sign agreement in order to contribute to the open source project. If you plan on making this commercial software then I understand signing an NDA.

Jorgan is licensed as https://opensource.org/licenses/GPL-2.0 which describes the entire license in detail, and that is the spirit I want to continue jorgan under where any developer can get involved and contribute to the source code with out any agreements. 

Jonathan Aquilina

On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Dr Mark Bugeja MD <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jonathan,

My question would be: Do you have the time to dedicate to such an endeavour?
I know you are always so busy with studies and work (and possibly social)
commitments. As Jesus said, the spirit may be willing but the flesh is weak.

I and another person are willing to develop a new programme along somewhat
specific lines which would include the incorporation of the best features of
jOrgan. Neither of us knows any programming and my partner is even willing
to sponsor the software development but the person/s who volunteer will have
to commit themselves with a legally binding contract with terms intended to
protect the interests of all the parties engaged.

Regards
Mark



--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/jOrgan-tp4662710p4663267.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic
patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are
consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow,
J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning
reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
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reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
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Re: jOrgan

Aaron Laws
In reply to this post by Pete Theisen
On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 9:06 AM, Pete Theisen <[hidden email]> wrote:
What? Legally binding? The open source software license makes legal
nonsense stuff largely unnecessary. Oh, you still can't go around
shooting people but . . .

On 07/23/2016 08:12 AM, Dr Mark Bugeja MD wrote:
> Jonathan,
>
> My question would be: Do you have the time to dedicate to such an endeavour?
> I know you are always so busy with studies and work (and possibly social)
> commitments. As Jesus said, the spirit may be willing but the flesh is weak.
>
> I and another person are willing to develop a new programme along somewhat
> specific lines which would include the incorporation of the best features of
> jOrgan. Neither of us knows any programming and my partner is even willing
> to sponsor the software development but the person/s who volunteer will have
> to commit themselves with a legally binding contract with terms intended to
> protect the interests of all the parties engaged.
>
> Regards
> Mark

I don't see any problem with paying people to do development, and even expecting them to do the work which you've purchased (by way of contracts, etc.). This is a main way that free (I'm not talking about cost) software can feed families. Jorgan is licensed as GNU GPL v2 according to Sourceforge which means that any contributions to it are also free (again, not talking about cost here). Whether a developer was paid to make those contributions is irrelevant.

It sounds like Mark is talking about starting a new software project, in which case he is free to proceed as he likes (excluding "borrowing" code from jorgan to put into "proprietary" software because of jorgan's license). In that case, I would not do any work with Mark *without* a "contract with terms intended to protect the interests of all the parties engaged"!

In Christ,
Aaron Laws

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Re: jOrgan

Aaron Laws
In reply to this post by eagles051387
On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Jonathan Aquilina <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good Afternoon Dr Mark,

I do have time to dedicate in my spare time I am working on my own projects and can set aside some time to work on bug fixes etc. In regards to paragraph two What you are describing goes against the spirit of open source. Nobody has to sign a leagally binding agreement when working with open source software. If you like I can provide you full details of the open source license that jorgan uses. What you are saying is usually done when a proprietary company takes over an open source project one such example would be Oracle and mysql (database software).  Oracle has added parts of their proprietary DB aspects to the open source so you need to sign agreement in order to contribute to the open source project. If you plan on making this commercial software then I understand signing an NDA.

Jorgan is licensed as https://opensource.org/licenses/GPL-2.0 which describes the entire license in detail, and that is the spirit I want to continue jorgan under where any developer can get involved and contribute to the source code with out any agreements. 

Jonathan Aquilina

I feel like I should mention this to lube the wheels of the conversation further. It was alluded to in "free to download the source code and share their results with the rest of us".

It is perfectly allowable to "fork" the project by anyone, that person now having exclusive leadership of the new project, the power to delegate said leadership, etc. Of course, this brings the problem of project name. It's not helpful to anybody to call the new product "jorgan"! And the name, jorgan, may be "all rights reserved", restrictively licensed, or something like that.

I'm happy to hear of Jonathan's enthusiasm. I'm not sure how to "prove" his trustworthiness, though. Has Jonathan contributed to the project yet? The most obvious heir to project management would be a regular contributor. I don't remember seeing names other than Sven on the code, but I've been here a very short time and not looked through the code history much.

Of course, if Sven is the current leadership, it fully rests on him to name an heir, the mechanics being making a new administrator on jorgan's sorceforge page I guess.

In Christ,
Aaron Laws

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Re: jOrgan

Dr Mark Bugeja MD
In reply to this post by Pete Theisen
Pete, when money is involved to egg people on, you don't want to have someone take away your money and then run away with it leaving you bare handed.

I never indicated that the software we have in mind will be an open source one. Neither did I gave any indication that we would want to continue developing jOrgan per se. However we do respect the authors of programs and we're not going to steal bits and pieces to suite our ends without doing this correctly.

Mark
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Re: jOrgan

Dr Mark Bugeja MD
In reply to this post by eagles051387
Hi Jon.... see my reply to Pete.

Regards
Mark
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Re: jOrgan

Dr Mark Bugeja MD
In reply to this post by Dr Mark Bugeja MD
Hahaha... that sounded a bit odd.... better to clarify myself.

..... we're not going to steal bits and pieces to suite our ends; we will proceed with a new software if we can get the right persons on board, get consent for using or incorporating anything that's part of another work and compensate accordingly.

Besides this new software business is just a crazy idea for now. It might never take off. Just exploring and brain storming because we have identified a vacuum and various issues with various commonly used organ simulators and builders.

Regards
Mark
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Re: jOrgan

Pete Theisen
In reply to this post by Dr Mark Bugeja MD
Well, if you are going to do that it will just be another rich guy's
hobby. In that arena, you would have to be either better than Hauptwerk,
or cheaper . . .

RIP jOrgan, then. I was never able to get it to work anyway.

On 07/23/2016 02:11 PM, Dr Mark Bugeja MD wrote:

> Pete, when money is involved to egg people on, you don't want to have someone
> take away your money and then run away with it leaving you bare handed.
>
> I never indicated that the software we have in mind will be an open source
> one. Neither did I gave any indication that we would want to continue
> developing jOrgan per se. However we do respect the authors of programs and
> we're not going to steal bits and pieces to suite our ends without doing
> this correctly.
>
> Mark

--
Regards,

Pete
https://www.facebook.com/pete.theisen.5

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow,
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reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
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Re: jOrgan

RoyR
In reply to this post by Dr Mark Bugeja MD
   I've really enjoyed this group but just don't understand the latest developments. Maybe I'm getting too old! How about a piece of music?


   



      Have fun,

            Roy.


On 23 July 2016 at 19:11, Dr Mark Bugeja MD <[hidden email]> wrote:
Pete, when money is involved to egg people on, you don't want to have someone
take away your money and then run away with it leaving you bare handed.

I never indicated that the software we have in mind will be an open source
one. Neither did I gave any indication that we would want to continue
developing jOrgan per se. However we do respect the authors of programs and
we're not going to steal bits and pieces to suite our ends without doing
this correctly.

Mark



--
View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/jOrgan-tp4662710p4663277.html
Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic
patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are
consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow,
J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning
reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
_______________________________________________
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Re: jOrgan

Dr Mark Bugeja MD
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Pete Theisen
Hi Pete,

I wonder why you never got jOrgan to work. If I got it to work, I don't see why you could have experienced problems with it.

Having said that, the major programs we are all acquainted with all have their positive side as well as their negatives. We aim at finding common ground to produce a better program that would not only be more user friendly but be a lot cheaper than the commercial one and very affordable to most. We do not intend to get rich quick but some expenses need to be covered and few would be willing to render a service for free.

I have observed that a good majority of organists are pensioners whose budgets are limited. We are aware of that and do respect those people amongst us falling into this category. Some are young beginners and we want to encourage this generation and help propel it into the future. Many render services in their community for free, on a purely voluntary basis, and this is a very noble commitment. I know because I myself have been rendering such a service for the past 40 years or so and not a cent to my credit from my playing.

These are the factors that will guide us forward, but without programmers willing to take on the challenge with a commitment to start and finish the project in reasonable time, we're pretty much stuck in the mud and a huge community is bound to remain confined to the existing software and at the mercy of developers who only tackle issues in their spare time. Take the organ builder for another free organ simulator. It was a good start and usable but has been left in mid-stream. The developer does not even answer emails sent to him! It is a shame really.

We may be dreaming of an ideal program that can be developed further than existing software but unless one starts exploring options and possibilities, nothing will ever get done. So it's a start and we hope we can get things rolling.

Regards
Mark
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Re: jOrgan

Pete Theisen
I think the problem was Linux being a rapidly moving target plus jOrgan
always demanding more hardware than I could afford.

On 07/23/2016 08:19 PM, Dr Mark Bugeja MD wrote:
> Hi Pete,
>
> I wonder why you never got jOrgan to work. If I got it to work, I don't see
> why you could have experienced problems with it.
--
Regards,

Pete
https://www.facebook.com/pete.theisen.5

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic
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consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow,
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reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
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