Volume Levels

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Volume Levels

Brian Sweetnam
I am setting up a new organ for myself with jOrgan. It works really great,
however, I am using the Christie as an example.  I want to be able to set
different volume levels for the PEDAL division, compared to the GREAT,
ACCOMP, or SOLO.  This is because the volume levels are too loud on the
pedal division for my amplification and speaker system, but the manuals are
at an acceptable level - the pedals give distortion in the lower octave, but
the manuals are OK throughout.

Can one for example duplicate the soundfont and use that as a sound source
for the pedal division? I do not want to duplicate the two main swell shoes,
but I would like to have a 2'nd copy of all the level controls as they
currently exist on the 2'nd page in the disposition.

Or can I change the volume of that octave alone in the soundfont (that will
be first prize for me)

I will be grateful for any advice please.



-----
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BrianS
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Re: Volume Levels

jbeach2646
Brian, Perhaps, the easiest thing to do would be to add a swell element for
the Pedal Division, using the expression controller (CC 11, expression) and
set the expression level to the level that
pleases you.  Copy the swell messages from any other instance of a swell
element which happens to be in the dispositon.  The Volume (CC 7, volume)
controller (if there is one for the entire organ) will, then, adjust the
volume for the entire organ, increasing or decreasing relative to the
differential settings of the swell elements, and unenclosed (non-swell)
divisions of the disposition.

You can duplicate the soundfont, make volume (attenuation) adjustments to
the Pedal stops using Polyphone, add another Fluidsynth Sound Source element
for the Pedal, unreference the Pedal stops from the other Fluidsynth Sound
Source instance that has the stops for the other divisions, and reference
the Pedal stops to the new instance of Fluidsynth Sound Source, or, leave
the duplicated soundfont for the Pedal division as is, making no attenuation
adjustments for Pedal stops in Polyphone,  and set the Gain in the
Customizer for the soundfont with the Pedal Division to a level that pleases
you.

John Beach




-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Sweetnam
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 1:49 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [jOrgan-user] Volume Levels

I am setting up a new organ for myself with jOrgan. It works really great,
however, I am using the Christie as an example.  I want to be able to set
different volume levels for the PEDAL division, compared to the GREAT,
ACCOMP, or SOLO.  This is because the volume levels are too loud on the
pedal division for my amplification and speaker system, but the manuals are
at an acceptable level - the pedals give distortion in the lower octave, but
the manuals are OK throughout.

Can one for example duplicate the soundfont and use that as a sound source
for the pedal division? I do not want to duplicate the two main swell shoes,
but I would like to have a 2'nd copy of all the level controls as they
currently exist on the 2'nd page in the disposition.

Or can I change the volume of that octave alone in the soundfont (that will
be first prize for me)

I will be grateful for any advice please.



-----
Regards,

BrianS
--
Sent from: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/jOrgan-User-f999863.html


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Re: Volume Levels

John Reimer
Administrator
In reply to this post by Brian Sweetnam
Brian Sweetnam wrote
> Or can I change the volume of that octave alone in the soundfont

Brian,

I’m not sure what you are proposing in the second paragraph, but you can
certainly change the volume of single octaves (or even groups of notes
called “zones” or “splits”) by using a soundfont editor. We have two at our
disposal, both free: the Viena (one “n”) available on the SynthFont website,
and the Polyphone. Google should locate both easily. Polyphone has been used
by many jOrgan people. I am more familiar with the older Viena, and have
used it constantly over the years. My tutorial on using it is listed on the
Tutorials page of the jOrgan Wiki. Here is the link:
http://home.exetel.com.au/reimerorgans/ART/Use_of_Viena.pdf
 
What you need to know is that increasing the Attenuation figure in the
appropriate zone cell by 5 lowers the level by 2 dB (or by 10, 4 dB etc.).

Send me an email if you need further advice.

What I should mention is that I have had problems with the Purge function in
the latest versions of Viena, which Kenneth Rund the creator has been unable
to duplicate. My workaround has been to use a much older version if I want
to use that function. However, I see on the SynthFont website the claim that
the latest version of Viena (1.02) has dealt with that problem. I have
downloaded it, and will report on what I discover.

John Reimer




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Re: Volume Levels

Brian Sweetnam
John and John,

Thank you both.

I think I will prefer to just lower the volume of the problem octave in the
soundfont, it will be the least amount of work and less complex in the end.

I am using Polyphone, I have tested it now, and the results seem positive so
far.

I must note however, that the playing level in Polyphone and in jOrgan are
not the same.  In jOrgan, the volume seems lower than in Polyphone, and I
don't really understand why this is.

Regards,

Brian.



-----
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Re: Volume Levels

Aaron Laws
On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:55 AM Brian Sweetnam <[hidden email]> wrote:
John and John,

Thank you both.

I think I will prefer to just lower the volume of the problem octave in the
soundfont, it will be the least amount of work and less complex in the end.

I am using Polyphone, I have tested it now, and the results seem positive so
far.

I must note however, that the playing level in Polyphone and in jOrgan are
not the same.  In jOrgan, the volume seems lower than in Polyphone, and I
don't really understand why this is.

Regards,

Brian.

The solution you propose is also superior in that it doesn't matter which keyboard plays the problem notes. If you play the same stop in the manual at the bottom of the keyboard, you'll have the same problem you're having with the pedal playing it, no? Sounds like the right way to go.

Aaron 


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Re: Volume Levels

jbeach2646
Brian, in order to achieve a parity in volume between the soundfont in Polyphone and jOrgan, make sure that, in Polyphone, the Edit>Settings>Synth-Reverb and Gain are the same as those which are
set in the disposition in jOrgan.  In particular, the “Level” setting of the Reverb in both should be the same or you will experience a very noticeable difference.   The Gain control in Polyphone is in Decibels and the Gain settings in the Customizer of jOrgan are not.  They are a bit confusing,  in decimals of 1(00), going from 0, then .01 to .1(0), .11 to .2(0), then .21 to .3(0), .31 to .4(0), etc,. up to 1(00).  The Zeros in the parentheses () preceding and in the Customizer of jOrgan are not shown.   So, exactly what the parity between a Gain setting of 20 in Polyphone and the Gain setting in jOrgan is,
is a good question.   If someone else can answer this question, please do.  (For example, if all the settings, PC Volume=20, jOrgan Gain=.2(0) and Polyphone Gain 20, were the same, would they be equal in loudness output?)  This disparity, probably accounts for the “playing level” differences you notice between Polyphone and jOrgan.
Also, your PC Onboard Audio and any Soundcard Volume setting (lower right speaker Icon on the Taskbar, right click, Sounds, Playback) should be the same in both jOrgan and Polyphone. 
You are right concerning Polyphone, that it does sound louder than jOrgan, but again, this may be due to the differences in particular settings.  We have to know what equivalencies are, first.
 
John Beach
From: Aaron Laws
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Volume Levels
 
On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:55 AM Brian Sweetnam <[hidden email]> wrote:
John and John,

Thank you both.

I think I will prefer to just lower the volume of the problem octave in the
soundfont, it will be the least amount of work and less complex in the end.

I am using Polyphone, I have tested it now, and the results seem positive so
far.

I must note however, that the playing level in Polyphone and in jOrgan are
not the same.  In jOrgan, the volume seems lower than in Polyphone, and I
don't really understand why this is.

Regards,

Brian.
 
The solution you propose is also superior in that it doesn't matter which keyboard plays the problem notes. If you play the same stop in the manual at the bottom of the keyboard, you'll have the same problem you're having with the pedal playing it, no? Sounds like the right way to go.
 
Aaron



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Re: Volume Levels

greenfox
In reply to this post by Brian Sweetnam
Hi Brian 

The jOrgan Christie disposition has a completely separate soundfont element for the pedals to allow independent volume adjustment (and independent reverb adjustment) from the keyboards. 

The situation you describe of the lowest octave being too loud could indicate you have your subwoofer cranked up higher than other uses may have. 

Regards 
Rick 

Regards,
Rick Whatson

On Fri., 26 Oct. 2018, 15:50 Brian Sweetnam, <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am setting up a new organ for myself with jOrgan. It works really great,
however, I am using the Christie as an example.  I want to be able to set
different volume levels for the PEDAL division, compared to the GREAT,
ACCOMP, or SOLO.  This is because the volume levels are too loud on the
pedal division for my amplification and speaker system, but the manuals are
at an acceptable level - the pedals give distortion in the lower octave, but
the manuals are OK throughout.

Can one for example duplicate the soundfont and use that as a sound source
for the pedal division? I do not want to duplicate the two main swell shoes,
but I would like to have a 2'nd copy of all the level controls as they
currently exist on the 2'nd page in the disposition.

Or can I change the volume of that octave alone in the soundfont (that will
be first prize for me)

I will be grateful for any advice please.



-----
Regards,

BrianS
--
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Re: Volume Levels

Brian Sweetnam
Hi Rick,

Yes, I do have it a little higher.  This is to compensate for different
software I am using on this new console of mine.  

I am using jOrgan, GrandOrgue, vArranger2, as well as Hauptwerk.  I would
like to get the console sound system setup, so that I don't have to
continually adjust the any equaliser controls or volume controls on the
sound system, and instead control all volume only via software, using the
swell pedals and master volume control.  If I adjust the sound system for
vArranger2, then the bass is too loud on the Christie disposition, and so it
goes on.  So it is quite a battle to get it all perfectly balanced, but I
know, I will get there.

I use those controls you mention on the "settings" page, but don't quite
understand how to set the volume for the pedals independently from the
manuals using them.

Regards,
Brian.



-----
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BrianS
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Re: Volume Levels

greenfox
Hi Brian 

The settings page has rank levels, and you are correct they affect both keyboards and pedals, but if you go to the last page of the customizer you will find 3x master volume controls. This is where you can set the pedals lower volume to the keyboards. 

Regards
Rick 

Regards,
Rick Whatson

On Sun., 28 Oct. 2018, 16:15 Brian Sweetnam, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Rick,

Yes, I do have it a little higher.  This is to compensate for different
software I am using on this new console of mine. 

I am using jOrgan, GrandOrgue, vArranger2, as well as Hauptwerk.  I would
like to get the console sound system setup, so that I don't have to
continually adjust the any equaliser controls or volume controls on the
sound system, and instead control all volume only via software, using the
swell pedals and master volume control.  If I adjust the sound system for
vArranger2, then the bass is too loud on the Christie disposition, and so it
goes on.  So it is quite a battle to get it all perfectly balanced, but I
know, I will get there.

I use those controls you mention on the "settings" page, but don't quite
understand how to set the volume for the pedals independently from the
manuals using them.

Regards,
Brian.



-----
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BrianS
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Re: Volume Levels

Brian Sweetnam
Rick,

That has solved my problem beautifully, thank you very much for that
information.  Now I have 3 different programs balanced on my console -
jOrgan, GrandOrgue, and vArranger.  Still need to check out Hauptwerk, but I
think it is a great success.

Regards,
Brian.



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Re: Volume Levels

Brian Sweetnam
Next, I would like to add an on-screen "Master Volume" to the disposition, so
that I can turn it down with just 1 control when I need to play privately,
without headphones.  I don't like headphones.



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Re: Volume Levels

jbeach2646
Brian, for a "Master Volume," if all your enclosed divisions have a swell
(Continuous Filter) using the CC#11 Expression, simply create another
Continuous Filter element and Label it "Master Volume"
and reference ALL ranks to it with the following messages: "  Engaging set
176, set 7, set volume 127 | mult value  " and  " Intercept equal 176, equal
7, get volume "    without the quotations marks,
of course!


John Beach

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Sweetnam
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 2:39 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Volume Levels

Next, I would like to add an on-screen "Master Volume" to the disposition,
so
that I can turn it down with just 1 control when I need to play privately,
without headphones.  I don't like headphones.



-----
Regards,

BrianS
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Re: Volume Levels

greenfox
In reply to this post by Brian Sweetnam
I don't think that will be possible. 
It is a fairly major change in the jOrgan structure to have the 3 separate controls (which I did to give separate reverb control). 

Regards 
Rick 

Regards,
Rick Whatson

On Mon., 29 Oct. 2018, 04:39 Brian Sweetnam, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Next, I would like to add an on-screen "Master Volume" to the disposition, so
that I can turn it down with just 1 control when I need to play privately,
without headphones.  I don't like headphones.



-----
Regards,

BrianS
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