Serious Compatibility Issues for jOrgan

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Serious Compatibility Issues for jOrgan

John Reimer
Administrator

It is time for jOrgan enthusiasts to face the fact that jOrgan has become
very vulnerable to compatibility issues. As far as I can understand it, the
problem arises from our dependence on Java. It is not clear just why there
have been issues with the recent versions of Apple Mac computers (and those
issues appear to have been present for a year or two), but now it seems that
jOrgan will not work with the latest versions of Linux Ubuntu! The
underlying problem seems to be that the jOrgan Installer is tied to
particular versions of Java, and at last this matter has caught up with us!

Sven Meier has reacted to the situation, and has made changes to the Linux
64 bit version. We need to know whether those changes have been successful.
Is there someone out there who can test it for us with the latest version of
Ubuntu (18.04 LTS, I believe)?

But just as important, we need to hear from a handful of jOrgan users with
the necessary programming ability, who will take up what Sven has done, and
create jOrgan install packages suitable for Windows, Linux  and Mac
operating systems both currently and in the future. That is a present urgent
need. Who will offer to be one of those persons?

John Reimer



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Re: Serious Compatibility Issues for jOrgan

eagles051387
That is a matter of just creating the jar file and run it. If I am not mistaken java is is agnostic in the sense as long as it’s installed on the system os is not an issue it will run.

Sven do you have sort of documentation documenting the changes you made or do we need to start documenting these changes so other developers out there can easily pick up where you left off or can easily understand what the code is doing? Maybe javadoc generation might be something worth looking at

Sent from my iPhone

> On 27 Jun 2018, at 23:05, John Reimer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> It is time for jOrgan enthusiasts to face the fact that jOrgan has become
> very vulnerable to compatibility issues. As far as I can understand it, the
> problem arises from our dependence on Java. It is not clear just why there
> have been issues with the recent versions of Apple Mac computers (and those
> issues appear to have been present for a year or two), but now it seems that
> jOrgan will not work with the latest versions of Linux Ubuntu! The
> underlying problem seems to be that the jOrgan Installer is tied to
> particular versions of Java, and at last this matter has caught up with us!
>
> Sven Meier has reacted to the situation, and has made changes to the Linux
> 64 bit version. We need to know whether those changes have been successful.
> Is there someone out there who can test it for us with the latest version of
> Ubuntu (18.04 LTS, I believe)?
>
> But just as important, we need to hear from a handful of jOrgan users with
> the necessary programming ability, who will take up what Sven has done, and
> create jOrgan install packages suitable for Windows, Linux  and Mac
> operating systems both currently and in the future. That is a present urgent
> need. Who will offer to be one of those persons?
>
> John Reimer
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/jOrgan-User-f999863.html
>
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> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

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Re: Serious Compatibility Issues for jOrgan

John Reimer
Administrator
In reply to this post by John Reimer
John Reimer wrote
> Sven Meier has reacted to the situation, and has made changes to the Linux
> 64 bit version. We need to know whether those changes have been
> successful. Is there someone out there who can test it for us with the
> latest version of Ubuntu (18.04 LTS, I believe)?

I am prepared to do my share of testing the new Linux installer. However, my
present computer is a dual-boot Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (32 bit) and Windows 7
laptop, and so is not suitable. It is still working well (I avoid the
Windows as much as I can, because of its slowness), but it is not suitable
for testing Linux at 64 bit. I do not wish to upgrade the Ubuntu section,
because of the risk of something going wrong.

My proposal is to "install" Ubuntu 18.04 LTS on a memory stick, and do the
testing by using that. Is that method likely to be invalid for any reason?

John Reimer




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Re: Serious Compatibility Issues for jOrgan

John Reimer
Administrator
John Reimer wrote
> My proposal is to "install" Ubuntu 18.04 LTS on a memory stick, and do the
> testing by using that

Alfred set the ball rolling with his announcement that jOrgan was not
working with Ubuntu 18.04, and his solution was to revert to Ubuntu 16.04.
Why that should have got it working and not 18.04, I haven’t the faintest
idea. We don't know whether he used different versions of Java.

It is heartening to have Sven coming briefly out of retirement and creating
a patch for the Ubuntu 64 bit download of jOrgan (if that’s exactly what his
patch is - I'm not even sure of that), but his statement that this should
make it work for Java versions 9 and 10 has me puzzled. Does that mean that
it won’t work with Java version 8, or with versions later than 10? What adds
to my puzzlement is that currently, Oracle still seems to prefer Java
version 8 (going by their downloads page), and version 11 is supposed to be
released in November 2018. (And just to add to the mix, the Linux developers
are no longer keen on Oracle, and prefer open dbk/jre). If anyone can clear
up my confusion, I shall be grateful.

Now to get down to the nitty gritty. After much effort, I have succeeded in
making a bootable USB stick with Ubuntu 18.04, which I plan to use for
testing purposes. I know what to do to install the jOrgan .deb file.  But I
am seeking your advice on the Java. I have downloaded (from an Oracle
webpage) jre-10.0.1_linux-x64_bin.tar.gz and jre-10.0.1_linux-x64_bin.rpm.
Which of these should I use? And what should I do to install it? Although I
have used Linux Ubuntu for many years now in preference to Windows, I am not
at all confident when it comes to technical matters. I don’t mind using
command lines, but I am at a loss when things do not go according to plan
(which seems to be far too often!)

John Reimer




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Re: Serious Compatibility Issues for jOrgan

John Reimer
Administrator
John Reimer wrote
> I have downloaded (from an Oracle
> webpage) jre-10.0.1_linux-x64_bin.tar.gz and what should I do to install
> it?

REPORT: Well, I do seem to have installed version 10 of jre. And also jOrgan
3.20 (using the "normal" download. I now suspect there is not yet any
upgraded download available). And the unfortunate thing is the I don't have
any clear idea how I managed to do it. BTW, folders named "java" and
"jorgan" turned up in the /usr/share folder.

But jOrgan doesn't start. So I plan to repeat the whole process by making a
bootable USB stick with Ubuntu 16.04.

John Reimer




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Re: Serious Compatibility Issues for jOrgan

Aaron Laws
In reply to this post by eagles051387
On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 5:12 PM, Jonathan Aquilina <[hidden email]> wrote:
That is a matter of just creating the jar file and run it. If I am not mistaken java is is agnostic in the sense as long as it’s installed on the system os is not an issue it will run.

Sven do you have sort of documentation documenting the changes you made or do we need to start documenting these changes so other developers out there can easily pick up where you left off or can easily understand what the code is doing? Maybe javadoc generation might be something worth looking at

There is no need for javadoc. Sven's code is immaculately clean and easy to follow.

To make an installation package for debian, see jorgan-package, for Apple Macintosh, see jorgan-bundle, and for Microsoft Windows, see jorgan-installer. I'm unable to do any of these at the moment: I don't have an Apple Macintosh, nor do I own Microsoft Windows, I don't use ubuntu, nor does my distribution have the tools for creating a debian package (dh_clean, etc.).

As you point out, it is a java application that is directly executable (though of course there are dependencies) and doesn't require an installer. For that, there is a run.sh in the root of the source tree. This is how I run jorgan at home.

What operating system do you use? Were you able to install jorgan from the web or GNU/Linux repositories? How do you run it?

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Re: Serious Compatibility Issues for jOrgan

jbeach2646
The subject of the future viability of jOrgan, given the generational changes of computers and operating systems which make hardware obsolete really begs the question of how much more
“improvement” or “upgrading” technology needs to make in order to satisfy human needs?  The pipe organ, seemingly, stands still, in terms of fundamental design and operating principles, needing no
improvements, while the computer industry attempts to increase the interdependence of systems in order to maintain economic purpose.   The fact is that jOrgan does everything we could possibly want it
to do.  Were it not for the fact that operating system advances necessitate implementation of changes to accommodate them, what needs to be done, in terms of the playability and sound production of organs in jOrgan,  is, in fact, being done.  The idea that the “air” in a pipe is “new” with each press of a key, or that the electricity used to generate sounds of wave files in a computer is “new” in the same way, does not necessitate upgrading systems.  I guess I am feeling somewhat resentful because, after years of keeping it, I finally threw out a perfectly good PC with a 1.2 Ghz processor and 1.5 GB RAM because it could not use any operating system beyond Windows XP.  I have perfectly good Sound Blaster Soundcards that are, for all practical purposes,  useless because the PC industry keeps making them obsolete with upgrades. 
 
I sense that this pretty much describes the problem that is being presented with respect to jOrgan’s future.  While it lacks nothing in terms of ability to be---and being--- an excellent virtual organ program, the economics of the PC industry are forcing change which is only necessary with respect to adaptation to upgrades in OSes and Java Runtimes.
 
I am sorry I have no programming experience and, thus, can only complain about “progressivism” in the computer industry. 
 
John Beach 
 
 
 
 
 
From: Aaron Laws
Sent: Monday, July 2, 2018 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Serious Compatibility Issues for jOrgan
 
On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 5:12 PM, Jonathan Aquilina <[hidden email]> wrote:
That is a matter of just creating the jar file and run it. If I am not mistaken java is is agnostic in the sense as long as it’s installed on the system os is not an issue it will run.

Sven do you have sort of documentation documenting the changes you made or do we need to start documenting these changes so other developers out there can easily pick up where you left off or can easily understand what the code is doing? Maybe javadoc generation might be something worth looking at
 
There is no need for javadoc. Sven's code is immaculately clean and easy to follow.
 
To make an installation package for debian, see jorgan-package, for Apple Macintosh, see jorgan-bundle, and for Microsoft Windows, see jorgan-installer. I'm unable to do any of these at the moment: I don't have an Apple Macintosh, nor do I own Microsoft Windows, I don't use ubuntu, nor does my distribution have the tools for creating a debian package (dh_clean, etc.).
 
As you point out, it is a java application that is directly executable (though of course there are dependencies) and doesn't require an installer. For that, there is a run.sh in the root of the source tree. This is how I run jorgan at home.
 
What operating system do you use? Were you able to install jorgan from the web or GNU/Linux repositories? How do you run it?


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