Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

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Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

Dries
Dear jOrgan friends,

It is a pleasure to present you a new disposition for jOrgan from the Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland.
This organ with two manuals and pedal has a very characteristic sound because it only has wooden pipes.

First recordings were made in March 2012. Now, around 1,5 year later, the disposition was finished and ready for launch.
The whole project is done in close coorporation with John Reimer.

The disposition, soundfont and skin files, together with a couple of midi files and organ description are available for download.
It is made for jOrgan 3.20 and Fluidsynth. Download link: http://www.nelemans.org/Klop_j3.20_FS_v1.0.zip

Hopefully you will enjoy playing on the Klop organ as much as we enjoyed developing this disposition!

Best regards,
Dries
Dries Nelemans - Ridderkerk, The Netherlands
BCA
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

BCA
Administrator
Dries, John,

many thanks for this remarkable work. A very clear instrument, perfect in a certain contemporary point of view. Thank you very much, I know how much work is in it.

I take the liberty to remark a few points regarding the Fluidsynth sound element and the ranks.

- I had lots of dropouts when starting the oriiginal disposition. I assume it was your idea to start with all jOrgan defaults. In certain points, the jOrgan defaults are not matching: amount of channels should be 256, polyphony should be at least 1024, better 2048. This already cured some dropouts.

- but for the main dropout reason: the original disposition has the "notEqual 9" entry missing in the rank's channel properties. I inserted those commands using a text editor's replace function, and then all dropouts disappeared.

I've one question regarding Dulciaan. Is this rank really that loud in the original organ? Not to be misunderstood - I love it, sounds like Dulciaan en chamade. The organ comes near to the Marcussen sound I know from the recordings of Karl Richter (for making that illusion complete for me, I'll try to add those strange repetating Quint present in Aabenraa, which is really something mysterious). It's a real pleasure to have this modern instrument in the jOrgan collection, and it is one of my favourites already, and very good for practising through it's precise action.

Many thanks again for the marvelous work.

all the best,
BCA
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

Dries
Dear Bernd,

Thanks for your reaction and appriciated comments. In this way I'm able to improve the disposition.  
I'm very happy that you like the organ and its sound!

To be honest I never recognized this dropouts on my console while playing. But I will definetely investigate in number of channels and polyphony and correct as suggested.

I was not aware of the "notEqual9" but found it indeed in the Jorgan Notes from Bruce Miles: For Soundfont compatible cards and synths, you must enter ‘notEqual 9' to prevent channel 10 being selected. . What is the problem with channel 10 ? Never had a problem when playing on my console and FS. But anyhow I wil correct this in the disposition.

The dulciaan is placed almost in the front of the organ, just behind the prestant pipes. So she sound is indeed that loud and "sharp" on the real organ.

Best regards,
Dries
Dries Nelemans - Ridderkerk, The Netherlands
BCA
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

BCA
Administrator
I recall the "notEqual 9" thing as synth specific. Channel 10 is the reserved drum channel, and to use this channel for other instruments in synths, appears to cause channelling problems.

We had discovered that without the "notEqual 9" command ranks drop out. So here with the Klop organ, I engaged all HW stops and was only able to engage one more pedal rank. If I wanted to use another pedal stop, I had to disengage another stop before. It's an old matter, being discussed in the jOrgan-user list long before. I'm not sure if this behaviour was considered a bug in FluidSynth (I doubt this), but since, we included that command in FluidSynth dispositions and have no dropouts anymore.
all the best,
BCA
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

Marco Francesco
This is the revised WS version to include "notEqual 9" in the ranks' properties. I have posted this in the jOrgan - User forum as well.

Marco

Klop_j3.20_FS_v1.0_WSv1.zip
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

John Reimer
Administrator
Marco,

Thank you for that contribution. I am thrilled with the sound of this latest jOrgan disposition/soundfont. It meant about 12 months work for both Dries and me, but it has certainly been worth it.

John R
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

Marco Francesco
My apologies for having veered somewhat from the original layout but this is the beauty of jOrgan. It allows for additions or changes that would be impossible on the real instrument. One can tailor to one's needs or tastes.

My heartfelt and sincere thanks for all the hard work put in by you and Dries for the enjoyment of us all.

Regards
Marco
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

John Reimer
Administrator
In reply to this post by BCA
BCA wrote
I've one question regarding Dulciaan. Is this rank really that loud in the original organ? Not to be misunderstood - I love it, sounds like Dulciaan en chamade.
Bernd,

Many thanks for your remarks on this new disposition. Dries and I have not actually discussed the loudness of the Dulciaan, but I must admit that on my set-up at least, it is almost as loud as the HW Trumpet! It seems a pity to reduce its volume, because it is such a good sound. But one way forward, even as a "test", would be to change its Rank Velocity message from 80 to 65, and perhaps change the HW Trumpet from 80 to 100. Perhaps Dries could rule on this for us.

I have just noticed a Dulciaan sample which is about 7 cents flat. A temporary fix would be to use Viena or Polyphone to put "7" in the Fine Tune cell for split 70-71 in the Instrument view.

John R
BCA
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

BCA
Administrator
John, Dries,

do you control the voicing in KLOP organ utilizing the velocity property? Has this a special reason?

Personally, I haven't changed the Dulciaan. Together with the trumpet, it's a chamade. I love it.

...if the church is heated, ALL Dulciaan would be detuned :-)))
all the best,
BCA
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

John Reimer
Administrator
BCA wrote
do you control the voicing in KLOP organ utilizing the velocity property?
Bernd,

No, not really. But Dries has chosen to make all the Rank Velocity messages to be "set 80", following what I did with the Earlwood models. This gives more headroom for such volume adjustment than "set 100" does, and this can be quite useful to make quick changes at the console without doing anything to the soundfont. It is probably more elegant to make all such voicing changes in the soundfont. However, it is very convenient.

John R
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

Dries
Hi Bernd,

Think I wrote before. The dulciaan on BW is really in front of the organ just behind the prestant pipe.
The trompet on HW is at the back of the organ. When tuning of the trumpet is needed I have to open a cover at the backside of the organ to reach the tuning springs.

So I am not surprised that the dulciaan is little bit louder but thinner and sharper as the trumpet which has a rounder milder sound.

Best regards,
Dries


Dries Nelemans - Ridderkerk, The Netherlands
BCA
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

BCA
Administrator
In reply to this post by Dries
Hi Dries, John,

in klop.zip skin the "Swell" slider works with a strange direction (vertical instead of horizontal). Since "SwellNameless" works as usual, I suspect this behaviour is intended?
all the best,
BCA
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

Dries
Hi Bernd,

Thanks for your comment. Since the sliders in the final disposition were not used I didn't take too much care about this.
But looking into the skin file I recognized that the direction was on 3 instead of 1 causing this strange behavior.
You can correct this by yourself in the skin file (klop.zip).
Or download a corrected file from the website: www.nelemans.org

Best regards,
Dries
Dries Nelemans - Ridderkerk, The Netherlands
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

mashaffer
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
I love the sound of this instrument. Many thanks for the 3.19 compatible disposition. The only issue I have had so far is some stops being intermittent as far as engaging. I presume that this was fixed in the latest official dispositions and it tempts me greatly to risk installing 3.20 just for this disposition alone. :D

Six thumbs up.

mike
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

John Reimer
Administrator
Mike,

I am grateful for your words of appreciation, and I imagine that Dries is also. Even apart from the wonderful sound, I suspect that this organ may be notable in being the first disposition using fully recorded samples where the recording and the subsequent work was all done solely for use with jOrgan. We have not, of course, provided one sample per note, and if we had chosen to do that, not only would the project still be unreleased, but perhaps it may never have been completed.

Regarding the intermittent operation, I have never noticed that behaviour here when using the earlier disposition.

Best wishes,
John Reimer
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

mashaffer
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
Well I did install 3.20 beta2. So far no issues... keeping my toes crossed. ;)

mike
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

Ferry1012
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by Dries
I really like the sound of Klop Organ. But I have the problem with this disposition. When I play music score, sometimes its no sound suddenly so I must restart jOrgan program. Can you tell me why it could be happen?I want to use this disposition in church, but the problem make me doubtful. I cant imagine if I use Klop Organ in church to accompany the choir & its no sound suddenly. I think its very horrible . . .  (Laugh) . . .
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

Dries
Hi Ferry,

That would be a very bad situation indeed...
I never had this problems specific to this disposition.

Do you have same problem sometimes with other dispositions?
Is it when specific ranks are activated ?
Only when playing full organ/tutti or also happening when playing with a few stops?

Maybe you can find somewhere an error report and post..

Best regards,
Dries
Dries Nelemans - Ridderkerk, The Netherlands
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

John Reimer
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ferry1012
Ferry1012,

You need to give us much more information about your set-up before we can try to help you. What are you using to play the disposition?  Is it simply a MIDI keyboard, or is it an actual organ console? Perhaps it is sending strange MIDI messages which confuse jOrgan. What Operating System are you using on your computer? Have you tried to use other dispositions to see if the problem happens there also?

John Reimer
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Re: Release of new disposition from Klop organ, Ridderkerk, Holland

Ferry1012
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
Mr. John Reimer . . .

I'm using Midi casio keyboard to playing this disposition with Windows 7 OS. I never had problem with using another disposition. My setting is Gain 0,3 ; Audio Buffer 8 ; Size 512.

Ferry Kristyawan


2014-04-04 19:14 GMT+08:00 John Reimer [via jOrgan] <[hidden email]>:
Ferry1012,

You need to give us much more information about your set-up before we can try to help you. What are you using to play the disposition?  Is it simply a MIDI keyboard, or is it an actual organ console? Perhaps it is sending strange MIDI messages which confuse jOrgan. What Operating System are you using on your computer? Have you tried to use other dispositions to see if the problem happens there also?

John Reimer


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