Question about jOrgan "Captor"

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Question about jOrgan "Captor"

jbird604
Hello All,

It appears that the material is being organized very well in the wiki, and will soon be usable as a kind of Help function for jOrgan. This will be a great improvement over the previous jOrgan website.

So, now we need to begin using this e-mail list as a discussion forum.

Soooooooooooooo .............   Here goes the first question for discussion, and I hope that I will get some advice:

Beginning with version 2.3, the "Set" button is no longer the CTRL key, but can be assigned to any key on the keyboard, right? And there is a special element just for that, called "Captor," right?

You tap the Captor once, then tap the piston that you want to set.

Now, what if I'd rather have it work like the old CTRL key, where I hold the Captor and keep holding it while I tap the piston I wish to set?  The reason I'm asking, I've been considering adding some secondary switch contacts to the existing pistons on my Rodgers so that I can simultaneously set Rodgers stops and jOrgan stops using the general pistons on the console. That will require that my Set (Captor) button work like the old CTRL key, since I must hold it in while performing a set on the Rodgers capture action.

Can I do this?  (I think I may know how, or at least I have an idea, but I want to see who will chime in to suggest something.)

John Birdsong
Choirmaster/Organist
Bono Baptist Church
Greenbrier, Arkansas
Home 501-679-4586
Cell  501-730-4883
Church 501-679-0509



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Re: Question about jOrgan "Captor"

jbird604
For those new to this type of forum, to answer a question all you need to do is click on "Reply" in your e-mail reader. A new message will automatically be generated with the correct address in the "Send To" box.



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Re: Question about jOrgan "Captor"

Sven Meier
Administrator
In reply to this post by jbird604
Hi John,

yes, the Captor element replaces the old CTRL key usage.
I change this because
- some people preferred a separate element to click on,
- it was nicer to implement in jOrgan (nothing a user would notice
though) and
- it freed the CTRL key for other usages.

Regretfully this doesn't allow the usage you're describing at the
moment. You cannot use CTRL alone to arm the Captor. I'll have to look
up why we have this restriction  - I think it should be possible to use it.

Sven

[hidden email] wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> It appears that the material is being organized very well in the wiki,
> and will soon be usable as a kind of Help function for jOrgan. This
> will be a great improvement over the previous jOrgan website.
>
> So, now we need to begin using this e-mail list as a discussion forum.
>
> Soooooooooooooo .............   Here goes the first question for
> discussion, and I hope that I will get some advice:
>
> Beginning with version 2.3, the "Set" button is no longer the CTRL
> key, but can be assigned to any key on the keyboard, right? And there
> is a special element just for that, called "Captor," right?
>
> You tap the Captor once, then tap the piston that you want to set.
>
> Now, what if I'd rather have it work like the old CTRL key, where I
> hold the Captor and keep holding it while I tap the piston I wish to
> set?  The reason I'm asking, I've been considering adding some
> secondary switch contacts to the existing pistons on my Rodgers so
> that I can simultaneously set Rodgers stops and jOrgan stops using the
> general pistons on the console. That will require that my Set (Captor)
> button work like the old CTRL key, since I must hold it in while
> performing a set on the Rodgers capture action.
>
> Can I do this?  (I think I may know how, or at least I have an idea,
> but I want to see who will chime in to suggest something.)
>
> John Birdsong
> Choirmaster/Organist
> Bono Baptist Church
> Greenbrier, Arkansas
> Home 501-679-4586
> Cell  501-730-4883
> Church 501-679-0509
>
>
>
> **************************************
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Question about jOrgan "Captor"

RoyR
Hi, Sven,
 
            Very interesting, just like 'All things jOrgan' I've also just discovered that the CNTRL key is the only way to remove a 'short cut' from a piston. Any other key just gives you a new 'short cut'!
 
   As I am trying to use jOrgan in ways far removed from its original intent, could I ask a rather strange question...
 
  Is it possible to reference a swell to a piston, so that it 'remembers' the balance settings of a registration as well as the combination of stops? It doesn't seem to be offered as an option at present.
 
     I'm trying to produce a disposition, based on Kent's soundfonts, called 'Roy Technics_style01'
 
   I guess the title gives the general idea, and it is far removed from theatre organ style!
 
   It's a sort of 3-manual Technics organ (They didn't make one, so far as I am aware.)
 
 It will have 4 'divisions', TOP, MIDDLE, BOTTOM and PEDALS, each of which will have 4 'sounds', Organ, two 'orchestral' and one 'solo' (Using the 'top line only' option.)
 
    I have already established that it is possible to have two swells referencing the same stop, and their effects are additive, so I can have a master swell for each 'division' and seperate balance controls for each 'sound' in that 'division'
 
    Unlike a theatre organ, the 'divisions' will be rigidly attached to keyboards, and the master swell for each 'division' will be operated by the slide on each keyboard.
 
    What I want now is the preset piston to 'remember' how much of each 'sound' was used in a particular registration...
 
   ... Just like my (Now defunct, sadly,  ) Technics SX-EA5.
 
     Have fun,
 
         Roy.

Sven Meier <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi John,

yes, the Captor element replaces the old CTRL key usage.
I change this because
- some people preferred a separate element to click on,
- it was nicer to implement in jOrgan (nothing a user would notice
though) and
- it freed the CTRL key for other usages.

Regretfully this doesn't allow the usage you're describing at the
moment. You cannot use CTRL alone to arm the Captor. I'll have to look
up why we have this restriction - I think it should be possible to use it.

Sven

[hidden email] wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> It appears that the material is being organized very well in the wiki,
> and will soon be usable as a kind of Help function for jOrgan. This
> will be a great improvement over the previous jOrgan website.
>
> So, now we need to begin using this e-mail list as a discussion forum.
>
> Soooooooooooooo ............. Here goes the first question for
> discussion, and I hope that I will get some advice:
>
> Beginning with version 2.3, the "Set" button is no longer the CTRL
> key, but can be assigned to any key on the keyboard, right? And there
> is a special element just for that, called "Captor," right?
>
> You tap the Captor once, then tap the piston that you want to set.
>
> Now, what if I'd rather have it work like the old CTRL key, where I
> hold the Captor and keep holding it while I tap the piston I wish to
> set? The reason I'm asking, I've been considering adding some
> secondary switch contacts to the existing pistons on my Rodgers so
> that I can simultaneously set Rodgers stops and jOrgan stops using the
> general pistons on the console. That will require that my Set (Captor)
> button work like the old CTRL key, since I must hold it in while
> performing a set on the Rodgers capture action.
>
> Can I do this? (I think I may know how, or at least I have an idea,
> but I want to see who will chime in to suggest something.)
>
> John Birdsong
> Choirmaster/Organist
> Bono Baptist Church
> Greenbrier, Arkansas
> Home 501-679-4586
> Cell 501-730-4883
> Church 501-679-0509
>
>
>
> **************************************
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user


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Re: Question about jOrgan "Captor"

Sven Meier
Administrator
Hi Roy,

no, swells can not be referenced by combinations (pistons). I had this
feature on my list some time ago but it was too cumbersome to include in
the program.

How is it in real life? I don't know of an organ that is able to
remember the swell position for a specific piston.

Sven

Roy Radford wrote:

> Hi, Sven,
>  
>             Very interesting, just like 'All things jOrgan' I've also
> just discovered that the CNTRL key is the only way to remove a 'short
> cut' from a piston. Any other key just gives you a new 'short cut'!
>  
>    As I am trying to use jOrgan in ways far removed from its original
> intent, could I ask a rather strange question...
>  
>   Is it possible to reference a swell to a piston, so that it
> 'remembers' the balance settings of a registration as well as the
> combination of stops? It doesn't seem to be offered as an option at
> present.
>  
>      I'm trying to produce a disposition, based on Kent's soundfonts,
> called 'Roy Technics_style01'
>  
>    I guess the title gives the general idea, and it is far removed
> from theatre organ style!
>  
>    It's a sort of 3-manual Technics organ (They didn't make one, so
> far as I am aware.)
>  
>  It will have 4 'divisions', TOP, MIDDLE, BOTTOM and PEDALS, each of
> which will have 4 'sounds', Organ, two 'orchestral' and one 'solo'
> (Using the 'top line only' option.)
>  
>     I have already established that it is possible to have two swells
> referencing the same stop, and their effects are additive, so I can
> have a master swell for each 'division' and seperate balance controls
> for each 'sound' in that 'division'
>  
>     Unlike a theatre organ, the 'divisions' will be rigidly attached
> to keyboards, and the master swell for each 'division' will be
> operated by the slide on each keyboard.
>  
>     What I want now is the preset piston to 'remember' how much of
> each 'sound' was used in a particular registration...
>  
>    ... Just like my (Now defunct, sadly,  ) Technics SX-EA5.
>  
>      Have fun,
>  
>          Roy.
>
> */Sven Meier <[hidden email]>/* wrote:
>
>     Hi John,
>
>     yes, the Captor element replaces the old CTRL key usage.
>     I change this because
>     - some people preferred a separate element to click on,
>     - it was nicer to implement in jOrgan (nothing a user would notice
>     though) and
>     - it freed the CTRL key for other usages.
>
>     Regretfully this doesn't allow the usage you're describing at the
>     moment. You cannot use CTRL alone to arm the Captor. I'll have to
>     look
>     up why we have this restriction - I think it should be possible to
>     use it.
>
>     Sven
>
>     [hidden email] wrote:
>     > Hello All,
>     >
>     > It appears that the material is being organized very well in the
>     wiki,
>     > and will soon be usable as a kind of Help function for jOrgan. This
>     > will be a great improvement over the previous jOrgan website.
>     >
>     > So, now we need to begin using this e-mail list as a discussion
>     forum.
>     >
>     > Soooooooooooooo ............. Here goes the first question for
>     > discussion, and I hope that I will get some advice:
>     >
>     > Beginning with version 2.3, the "Set" button is no longer the CTRL
>     > key, but can be assigned to any key on the keyboard, right? And
>     there
>     > is a special element just for that, called "Captor," right?
>     >
>     > You tap the Captor once, then tap the piston that you want to set.
>     >
>     > Now, what if I'd rather have it work like the old CTRL key, where I
>     > hold the Captor and keep holding it while I tap the piston I
>     wish to
>     > set? The reason I'm asking, I've been considering adding some
>     > secondary switch contacts to the existing pistons on my Rodgers so
>     > that I can simultaneously set Rodgers stops and jOrgan stops
>     using the
>     > general pistons on the console. That will require that my Set
>     (Captor)
>     > button work like the old CTRL key, since I must hold it in while
>     > performing a set on the Rodgers capture action.
>     >
>     > Can I do this? (I think I may know how, or at least I have an idea,
>     > but I want to see who will chime in to suggest something.)
>     >
>     > John Birdsong
>     > Choirmaster/Organist
>     > Bono Baptist Church
>     > Greenbrier, Arkansas
>     > Home 501-679-4586
>     > Cell 501-730-4883
>     > Church 501-679-0509
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > **************************************
>     > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about
>     what's free
>     > from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
>     >
>     >
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >
>     >
>     -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
>     > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance
>     to share your
>     > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
>     >
>     http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
>     >
>     >
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > jOrgan-user mailing list
>     > [hidden email]
>     > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>
>
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Re: Question about jOrgan "Captor"

jbird604
In reply to this post by jbird604
Sven,

No need to change anything about the way "Captor" works. I have mine assigned to the "Z" key and it works just fine that way. I plan to build a simple interface between the organ console and computer that will work this way:

The pistons on this old Rodgers console operate off a common +15 volt bus. My plan is to tap the circuit on the non-common side of each piston. The voltage at that point will rise to +15 on a given piston press. I will come from that point through a small capacitor, maybe about 1 mfd, through a 2K resistor, into the LED of an opto-isolator chip, one circuit per piston. Each piston press should, if my theory translates to action, cause a momentary "flash" of the LED, as the capacitor quickly charges. (The capacitor will discharge, when the piston is released, through the organ's own capture action circuitry, I believe, making it ready for a subsequent piston press in a fraction of a second, though, of course, one would not normally press pistons rapidly.)

The other element of each opto chip, the photo-transistor, will be connected directly across the switch underneath one key on my computer keyboard. (I will tear into a very cheap computer keyboard for this purpose.)

Then, whenever the LED flashes in response to a piston press, the photo-transisor will conduct for a few milliseconds, making the computer think that key on the keyboard was tapped.

If all works as planned, I will be able to set my jOrgan pistons right along with the Rodgers organ's pistons. I'll be able to combine Rodgers and jOrgan stops freely, and have them all recall together at the touch of one piston.

I'll let you know if this works.

The reason no modification of "Captor" is necessary is that my pressing of the "set" piston will always precede the pressing of a numbered piston, as that is the way you do it on this organ. Therefore, the LED connected to the set piston will flash a fraction of a second before the piston that I am attempting to set, and will therefore work correctly just as it is.

John Birdsong

In a message dated 3/17/2007 2:17:26 PM Central Standard Time, [hidden email] writes:

Hi John,

yes, the Captor element replaces the old CTRL key usage.
I change this because
- some people preferred a separate element to click on,
- it was nicer to implement in jOrgan (nothing a user would notice
though) and
- it freed the CTRL key for other usages.

Regretfully this doesn't allow the usage you're describing at the
moment. You cannot use CTRL alone to arm the Captor. I'll have to look
up why we have this restriction  - I think it should be possible to use it.

Sven





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Re: Question about jOrgan "Captor"

RoyR
In reply to this post by Sven Meier
Hi, Sven,
 
            "How is it in real life? "
 
     Well, for me, 'Real life' in this respect means 'a la Technics' because that's the only kind of organ I've ever played! The SX-EA5 has 4 'sounds' associated with each keyboard, 'Organ', 'Sound 1', 'Sound 2' and 'Solo'. Each of these 'sounds' can have more or less anything in the machine assigned to it, and each has it's own level adjustment. These adjustments are not really 'swells', in the sense of having pedals attached, they are merely numbers in the memories, but they can be included in the preset pistons so that, when you recall a particular registration, you also recall the balance of the 4 'sounds' 
 
     I realise, of course, that all this is quite different from pipe organ practice, as is the  allocation of swells to fixed keyboards rather than chambers.
 
    I also use a separate soundsource for each keyboard, to kill unification, for reasons I have already posted on the forum.
 
    Of course, when you try to create your own disposition from scratch, you learn a lot of little details you hadn't noticed before. You also realise how superficial your first thoughts on the subject really were, and how much work people like  e.g. Bruce and Kent must have put into their offerings! Here are a few details I have come across:
 
    You can't use F11 to toggle full screen mode unless the console has a 'screen' defined. DEFAULT, which Bruce mentions in his notes, doesn't seem to be on offer on my setup (2.3.6) but SCREEN 0 seems to work OK.
 
   Clicking the extreme right of the 'message' box on a swell to get 'Waiting for signal' seems to be a very 'hit and miss' affair on my computer. If I move the slide on the keyboard VERY slowly, the message is accepted, but may or may not actually work when I come out of build mode, sometimes 3 or 4 attempts are needed before it works. I'm not sure, but I have the impression it only works at all if the 'value' of the swell is zero to start with. If I move the slide quickly to send the message, it crashes completely, and I have to appeal to 'task manager' to close the program.
 
     Please don't take any of this unkindly, it's a great program... In any case, I really have no idea whether it is:
 
    a) An odd quirk in the program.
    b) An odd quirk in the computer, or
    c) Just an odd, quirky sort of guy trying to make it all work!
 
     Have fun,
 
         Roy.

Sven Meier <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Roy,

no, swells can not be referenced by combinations (pistons). I had this
feature on my list some time ago but it was too cumbersome to include in
the program.

How is it in real life? I don't know of an organ that is able to
remember the swell position for a specific piston.

Sven

Roy Radford wrote:

> Hi, Sven,
>
> Very interesting, just like 'All things jOrgan' I've also
> just discovered that the CNTRL key is the only way to remove a 'short
> cut' from a piston. Any other key just gives you a new 'short cut'!
>
> As I am trying to use jOrgan in ways far removed from its original
> intent, could I ask a rather strange question...
>
> Is it possible to reference a swell to a piston, so that it
> 'remembers' the balance settings of a registration as well as the
> combination of stops? It doesn't seem to be offered as an option at
> present.
>
> I'm trying to produce a disposition, based on Kent's soundfonts,
> called 'Roy Technics_style01'
>
> I guess the title gives the general idea, and it is far removed
> from theatre organ style!
>
> It's a sort of 3-manual Technics organ (They didn't make one, so
> far as I am aware.)
>
> It will have 4 'divisions', TOP, MIDDLE, BOTTOM and PEDALS, each of
> which will have 4 'sounds', Organ, two 'orchestral' and one 'solo'
> (Using the 'top line only' option.)
>
> I have already established that it is possible to have two swells
> referencing the same stop, and their effects are additive, so I can
> have a master swell for each 'division' and seperate balance controls
> for each 'sound' in that 'division'
>
> Unlike a theatre organ, the 'divisions' will be rigidly attached
> to keyboards, and the master swell for each 'division' will be
> operated by the slide on each keyboard.
>
> What I want now is the preset piston to 'remember' how much of
> each 'sound' was used in a particular registration...
>
> ... Just like my (Now defunct, sadly, ) Technics SX-EA5.
>
> Have fun,
>
> Roy.
>
> */Sven Meier /* wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> yes, the Captor element replaces the old CTRL key usage.
> I change this because
> - some people preferred a separate element to click on,
> - it was nicer to implement in jOrgan (nothing a user would notice
> though) and
> - it freed the CTRL key for other usages.
>
> Regretfully this doesn't allow the usage you're describing at the
> moment. You cannot use CTRL alone to arm the Captor. I'll have to
> look
> up why we have this restriction - I think it should be possible to
> use it.
>
> Sven
>
> [hidden email] wrote:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > It appears that the material is being organized very well in the
> wiki,
> > and will soon be usable as a kind of Help function for jOrgan. This
> > will be a great improvement over the previous jOrgan website.
> >
> > So, now we need to begin using this e-mail list as a discussion
> forum.
> >
> > Soooooooooooooo ............. Here goes the first question for
> > discussion, and I hope that I will get some advice:
> >
> > Beginning with version 2.3, the "Set" button is no longer the CTRL
> > key, but can be assigned to any key on the keyboard, right? And
> there
> > is a special element just for that, called "Captor," right?
> >
> > You tap the Captor once, then tap the piston that you want to set.
> >
> > Now, what if I'd rather have it work like the old CTRL key, where I
> > hold the Captor and keep holding it while I tap the piston I
> wish to
> > set? The reason I'm asking, I've been considering adding some
> > secondary switch contacts to the existing pistons on my Rodgers so
> > that I can simultaneously set Rodgers stops and jOrgan stops
> using the
> > general pistons on the console. That will require that my Set
> (Captor)
> > button work like the old CTRL key, since I must hold it in while
> > performing a set on the Rodgers capture action.
> >
> > Can I do this? (I think I may know how, or at least I have an idea,
> > but I want to see who will chime in to suggest something.)
> >
> > John Birdsong
> > Choirmaster/Organist
> > Bono Baptist Church
> > Greenbrier, Arkansas
> > Home 501-679-4586
> > Cell 501-730-4883
> > Church 501-679-0509
> >
> >
> >
> > **************************************
> > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about
> what's free
> > from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance
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> > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> >
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> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>
>
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Re: Question about jOrgan "Captor"

Graham Harrison
Hi Roy
 
I'm not 100% sure I understand what you are trying to achieve here - your "psuedo Technics" organ is a very different animal from my "psuedo Church" organ.
But couldn't you achieve the desired result simply by setting the appropriate "Volume" property for each "stop" in the Disposition?
 
Best
 
Graham
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Jorgan-user] Question about jOrgan "Captor"

Hi, Sven,
 
            "How is it in real life? "
 
     Well, for me, 'Real life' in this respect means 'a la Technics' because that's the only kind of organ I've ever played! The SX-EA5 has 4 'sounds' associated with each keyboard, 'Organ', 'Sound 1', 'Sound 2' and 'Solo'. Each of these 'sounds' can have more or less anything in the machine assigned to it, and each has it's own level adjustment. These adjustments are not really 'swells', in the sense of having pedals attached, they are merely numbers in the memories, but they can be included in the preset pistons so that, when you recall a particular registration, you also recall the balance of the 4 'sounds' 
 
     I realise, of course, that all this is quite different from pipe organ practice, as is the  allocation of swells to fixed keyboards rather than chambers.
 
    I also use a separate soundsource for each keyboard, to kill unification, for reasons I have already posted on the forum.
 
    Of course, when you try to create your own disposition from scratch, you learn a lot of little details you hadn't noticed before. You also realise how superficial your first thoughts on the subject really were, and how much work people like  e.g. Bruce and Kent must have put into their offerings! Here are a few details I have come across:
 
    You can't use F11 to toggle full screen mode unless the console has a 'screen' defined. DEFAULT, which Bruce mentions in his notes, doesn't seem to be on offer on my setup (2.3.6) but SCREEN 0 seems to work OK.
 
   Clicking the extreme right of the 'message' box on a swell to get 'Waiting for signal' seems to be a very 'hit and miss' affair on my computer. If I move the slide on the keyboard VERY slowly, the message is accepted, but may or may not actually work when I come out of build mode, sometimes 3 or 4 attempts are needed before it works. I'm not sure, but I have the impression it only works at all if the 'value' of the swell is zero to start with. If I move the slide quickly to send the message, it crashes completely, and I have to appeal to 'task manager' to close the program.
 
     Please don't take any of this unkindly, it's a great program... In any case, I really have no idea whether it is:
 
    a) An odd quirk in the program.
    b) An odd quirk in the computer, or
    c) Just an odd, quirky sort of guy trying to make it all work!
 
     Have fun,
 
         Roy.

Sven Meier <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Roy,

no, swells can not be referenced by combinations (pistons). I had this
feature on my list some time ago but it was too cumbersome to include in
the program.

How is it in real life? I don't know of an organ that is able to
remember the swell position for a specific piston.

Sven

Roy Radford wrote:

> Hi, Sven,
>
> Very interesting, just like 'All things jOrgan' I've also
> just discovered that the CNTRL key is the only way to remove a 'short
> cut' from a piston. Any other key just gives you a new 'short cut'!
>
> As I am trying to use jOrgan in ways far removed from its original
> intent, could I ask a rather strange question...
>
> Is it possible to reference a swell to a piston, so that it
> 'remembers' the balance settings of a registration as well as the
> combination of stops? It doesn't seem to be offered as an option at
> present.
>
> I'm trying to produce a disposition, based on Kent's soundfonts,
> called 'Roy Technics_style01'
>
> I guess the title gives the general idea, and it is far removed
> from theatre organ style!
>
> It's a sort of 3-manual Technics organ (They didn't make one, so
> far as I am aware.)
>
> It will have 4 'divisions', TOP, MIDDLE, BOTTOM and PEDALS, each of
> which will have 4 'sounds', Organ, two 'orchestral' and one 'solo'
> (Using the 'top line only' option.)
>
> I have already established that it is possible to have two swells
> referencing the same stop, and their effects are additive, so I can
> have a master swell for each 'division' and seperate balance controls
> for each 'sound' in that 'division'
>
> Unlike a theatre organ, the 'divisions' will be rigidly attached
> to keyboards, and the master swell for each 'division' will be
> operated by the slide on each keyboard.
>
> What I want now is the preset piston to 'remember' how much of
> each 'sound' was used in a particular registration...
>
> ... Just like my (Now defunct, sadly, ) Technics SX-EA5.
>
> Have fun,
>
> Roy.
>
> */Sven Meier /* wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> yes, the Captor element replaces the old CTRL key usage.
> I change this because
> - some people preferred a separate element to click on,
> - it was nicer to implement in jOrgan (nothing a user would notice
> though) and
> - it freed the CTRL key for other usages.
>
> Regretfully this doesn't allow the usage you're describing at the
> moment. You cannot use CTRL alone to arm the Captor. I'll have to
> look
> up why we have this restriction - I think it should be possible to
> use it.
>
> Sven
>
> [hidden email] wrote:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > It appears that the material is being organized very well in the
> wiki,
> > and will soon be usable as a kind of Help function for jOrgan. This
> > will be a great improvement over the previous jOrgan website.
> >
> > So, now we need to begin using this e-mail list as a discussion
> forum.
> >
> > Soooooooooooooo ............. Here goes the first question for
> > discussion, and I hope that I will get some advice:
> >
> > Beginning with version 2.3, the "Set" button is no longer the CTRL
> > key, but can be assigned to any key on the keyboard, right? And
> there
> > is a special element just for that, called "Captor," right?
> >
> > You tap the Captor once, then tap the piston that you want to set.
> >
> > Now, what if I'd rather have it work like the old CTRL key, where I
> > hold the Captor and keep holding it while I tap the piston I
> wish to
> > set? The reason I'm asking, I've been considering adding some
> > secondary switch contacts to the existing pistons on my Rodgers so
> > that I can simultaneously set Rodgers stops and jOrgan stops
> using the
> > general pistons on the console. That will require that my Set
> (Captor)
> > button work like the old CTRL key, since I must hold it in while
> > performing a set on the Rodgers capture action.
> >
> > Can I do this? (I think I may know how, or at least I have an idea,
> > but I want to see who will chime in to suggest something.)
> >
> > John Birdsong
> > Choirmaster/Organist
> > Bono Baptist Church
> > Greenbrier, Arkansas
> > Home 501-679-4586
> > Cell 501-730-4883
> > Church 501-679-0509
> >
> >
> >
> > **************************************
> > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about
> what's free
> > from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance
> to share your
> > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> >
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > jOrgan-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Question about jOrgan "Captor"

RoyR
Hi, Graham,
 
                 What I'm trying to achieve is an organ which feels as much as possible like the Technics I am used to playing, with a few enhancements, such as 3 manuals, and more than one stop per 'sound'.
 
    Yes, you could use the 'volume' setting, but you have to keep switching in and out of build mode to test each setting, and it becomes a part of the disposition, not something you can save into one of the 100 memories and use for a particular piece of music. You couldn't call several different settings from real-world pistons as you change songs either.
 
     I did toy with the possibility of having a separate disposition for each song. Sounds crazy, but it doesn't cost much in terms of disk space, and it's not SO different from loading up to 20 different setups per floppy disk on the Technics. Even so, it's still not a substitute for instantly changing the balance and registration at the flick of a button.
 
     Have fun,
 
         Roy.

Graham Harrison <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Roy
 
I'm not 100% sure I understand what you are trying to achieve here - your "psuedo Technics" organ is a very different animal from my "psuedo Church" organ.
But couldn't you achieve the desired result simply by setting the appropriate "Volume" property for each "stop" in the Disposition?
 
Best
 
Graham
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Jorgan-user] Question about jOrgan "Captor"

Hi, Sven,
 
            "How is it in real life? "
 
     Well, for me, 'Real life' in this respect means 'a la Technics' because that's the only kind of organ I've ever played! The SX-EA5 has 4 'sounds' associated with each keyboard, 'Organ', 'Sound 1', 'Sound 2' and 'Solo'. Each of these 'sounds' can have more or less anything in the machine assigned to it, and each has it's own level adjustment. These adjustments are not really 'swells', in the sense of having pedals attached, they are merely numbers in the memories, but they can be included in the preset pistons so that, when you recall a particular registration, you also recall the balance of the 4 'sounds' 
 
     I realise, of course, that all this is quite different from pipe organ practice, as is the  allocation of swells to fixed keyboards rather than chambers.
 
    I also use a separate soundsource for each keyboard, to kill unification, for reasons I have already posted on the forum.
 
    Of course, when you try to create your own disposition from scratch, you learn a lot of little details you hadn't noticed before. You also realise how superficial your first thoughts on the subject really were, and how much work people like  e.g. Bruce and Kent must have put into their offerings! Here are a few details I have come across:
 
    You can't use F11 to toggle full screen mode unless the console has a 'screen' defined. DEFAULT, which Bruce mentions in his notes, doesn't seem to be on offer on my setup (2.3.6) but SCREEN 0 seems to work OK.
 
   Clicking the extreme right of the 'message' box on a swell to get 'Waiting for signal' seems to be a very 'hit and miss' affair on my computer. If I move the slide on the keyboard VERY slowly, the message is accepted, but may or may not actually work when I come out of build mode, sometimes 3 or 4 attempts are needed before it works. I'm not sure, but I have the impression it only works at all if the 'value' of the swell is zero to start with. If I move the slide quickly to send the message, it crashes completely, and I have to appeal to 'task manager' to close the program.
 
     Please don't take any of this unkindly, it's a great program... In any case, I really have no idea whether it is:
 
    a) An odd quirk in the program.
    b) An odd quirk in the computer, or
    c) Just an odd, quirky sort of guy trying to make it all work!
 
     Have fun,
 
         Roy.

Sven Meier <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Roy,

no, swells can not be referenced by combinations (pistons). I had this
feature on my list some time ago but it was too cumbersome to include in
the program.

How is it in real life? I don't know of an organ that is able to
remember the swell position for a specific piston.

Sven

Roy Radford wrote:

> Hi, Sven,
>
> Very interesting, just like 'All things jOrgan' I've also
> just discovered that the CNTRL key is the only way to remove a 'short
> cut' from a piston. Any other key just gives you a new 'short cut'!
>
> As I am trying to use jOrgan in ways far removed from its original
> intent, could I ask a rather strange question...
>
> Is it possible to reference a swell to a piston, so that it
> 'remembers' the balance settings of a registration as well as the
> combination of stops? It doesn't seem to be offered as an option at
> present.
>
> I'm trying to produce a disposition, based on Kent's soundfonts,
> called 'Roy Technics_style01'
>
> I guess the title gives the general idea, and it is far removed
> from theatre organ style!
>
> It's a sort of 3-manual Technics organ (They didn't make one, so
> far as I am aware.)
>
> It will have 4 'divisions', TOP, MIDDLE, BOTTOM and PEDALS, each of
> which will have 4 'sounds', Organ, two 'orchestral' and one 'solo'
> (Using the 'top line only' option.)
>
> I have already established that it is possible to have two swells
> referencing the same stop, and their effects are additive, so I can
> have a master swell for each 'division' and seperate balance controls
> for each 'sound' in that 'division'
>
> Unlike a theatre organ, the 'divisions' will be rigidly attached
> to keyboards, and the master swell for each 'division' will be
> operated by the slide on each keyboard.
>
> What I want now is the preset piston to 'remember' how much of
> each 'sound' was used in a particular registration...
>
> ... Just like my (Now defunct, sadly, ) Technics SX-EA5.
>
> Have fun,
>
> Roy.
>
> */Sven Meier /* wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> yes, the Captor element replaces the old CTRL key usage.
> I change this because
> - some people preferred a separate element to click on,
> - it was nicer to implement in jOrgan (nothing a user would notice
> though) and
> - it freed the CTRL key for other usages.
>
> Regretfully this doesn't allow the usage you're describing at the
> moment. You cannot use CTRL alone to arm the Captor. I'll have to
> look
> up why we have this restriction - I think it should be possible to
> use it.
>
> Sven
>
> [hidden email] wrote:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > It appears that the material is being organized very well in the
> wiki,
> > and will soon be usable as a kind of Help function for jOrgan. This
> > will be a great improvement over the previous jOrgan website.
> >
> > So, now we need to begin using this e-mail list as a discussion
> forum.
> >
> > Soooooooooooooo ............. Here goes the first question for
> > discussion, and I hope that I will get some advice:
> >
> > Beginning with version 2.3, the "Set" button is no longer the CTRL
> > key, but can be assigned to any key on the keyboard, right? And
> there
> > is a special element just for that, called "Captor," right?
> >
> > You tap the Captor once, then tap the piston that you want to set.
> >
> > Now, what if I'd rather have it work like the old CTRL key, where I
> > hold the Captor and keep holding it while I tap the piston I
> wish to
> > set? The reason I'm asking, I've been considering adding some
> > secondary switch contacts to the existing pistons on my Rodgers so
> > that I can simultaneously set Rodgers stops and jOrgan stops
> using the
> > general pistons on the console. That will require that my Set
> (Captor)
> > button work like the old CTRL key, since I must hold it in while
> > performing a set on the Rodgers capture action.
> >
> > Can I do this? (I think I may know how, or at least I have an idea,
> > but I want to see who will chime in to suggest something.)
> >
> > John Birdsong
> > Choirmaster/Organist
> > Bono Baptist Church
> > Greenbrier, Arkansas
> > Home 501-679-4586
> > Cell 501-730-4883
> > Church 501-679-0509
> >
> >
> >
> > **************************************
> > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about
> what's free
> > from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance
> to share your
> > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> >
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > jOrgan-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Jorgan-user] Question about jOrgan "Captor"

Sven Meier
Administrator
In reply to this post by RoyR
Hi Roy,

we changed the 'screen' setting a few versions ago - there is no DEFAULT
value anymore. If you want to have a console appear in fullscreen you
have to select the screen for it. In most cases (usually having a single
monitor in front of you) this value will be something like '\Default 0'.

I just checked the Midi message recording feature, and it seems that
this facility might easily get overwhelmed by too many Midi messages.
This will be changed in the upcoming new version.

Regards

Sven

Roy Radford wrote:

> Hi, Sven,
>  
>             "How is it in real life? "
>  
>      Well, for me, 'Real life' in this respect means 'a la Technics'
> because that's the only kind of organ I've ever played! The SX-EA5 has
> 4 'sounds' associated with each keyboard, 'Organ', 'Sound 1', 'Sound
> 2' and 'Solo'. Each of these 'sounds' can have more or less anything
> in the machine assigned to it, and each has it's own level adjustment.
> These adjustments are not really 'swells', in the sense of having
> pedals attached, they are merely numbers in the memories, but they can
> be included in the preset pistons so that, when you recall a
> particular registration, you also recall the balance of the 4 'sounds'
>  
>      I realise, of course, that all this is quite different from pipe
> organ practice, as is the  allocation of swells to fixed keyboards
> rather than chambers.
>  
>     I also use a separate soundsource for each keyboard, to kill
> unification, for reasons I have already posted on the forum.
>  
>     Of course, when you try to create your own disposition from
> scratch, you learn a lot of little details you hadn't noticed before.
> You also realise how superficial your first thoughts on the subject
> really were, and how much work people like  e.g. Bruce and Kent must
> have put into their offerings! Here are a few details I have come across:
>  
>     You can't use F11 to toggle full screen mode unless the console
> has a 'screen' defined. DEFAULT, which Bruce mentions in his notes,
> doesn't seem to be on offer on my setup (2.3.6) but SCREEN 0 seems to
> work OK.
>  
>    Clicking the extreme right of the 'message' box on a swell to get
> 'Waiting for signal' seems to be a very 'hit and miss' affair on my
> computer. If I move the slide on the keyboard VERY slowly, the message
> is accepted, but may or may not actually work when I come out of build
> mode, sometimes 3 or 4 attempts are needed before it works. I'm not
> sure, but I have the impression it only works at all if the 'value' of
> the swell is zero to start with. If I move the slide quickly to send
> the message, it crashes completely, and I have to appeal to 'task
> manager' to close the program.
>  
>      Please don't take any of this unkindly, it's a great program...
> In any case, I really have no idea whether it is:
>  
>     a) An odd quirk in the program.
>     b) An odd quirk in the computer, or
>     c) Just an odd, quirky sort of guy trying to make it all work!
>  
>      Have fun,
>  
>          Roy.
>
> */Sven Meier <[hidden email]>/* wrote:
>
>     Hi Roy,
>
>     no, swells can not be referenced by combinations (pistons). I had
>     this
>     feature on my list some time ago but it was too cumbersome to
>     include in
>     the program.
>
>     How is it in real life? I don't know of an organ that is able to
>     remember the swell position for a specific piston.
>
>     Sven
>
>     Roy Radford wrote:
>     > Hi, Sven,
>     >
>     > Very interesting, just like 'All things jOrgan' I've also
>     > just discovered that the CNTRL key is the only way to remove a
>     'short
>     > cut' from a piston. Any other key just gives you a new 'short cut'!
>     >
>     > As I am trying to use jOrgan in ways far removed from its original
>     > intent, could I ask a rather strange question...
>     >
>     > Is it possible to reference a swell to a piston, so that it
>     > 'remembers' the balance settings of a registration as well as the
>     > combination of stops? It doesn't seem to be offered as an option at
>     > present.
>     >
>     > I'm trying to produce a disposition, based on Kent's soundfonts,
>     > called 'Roy Technics_style01'
>     >
>     > I guess the title gives the general idea, and it is far removed
>     > from theatre organ style!
>     >
>     > It's a sort of 3-manual Technics organ (They didn't make one, so
>     > far as I am aware.)
>     >
>     > It will have 4 'divisions', TOP, MIDDLE, BOTTOM and PEDALS, each of
>     > which will have 4 'sounds', Organ, two 'orchestral' and one 'solo'
>     > (Using the 'top line only' option.)
>     >
>     > I have already established that it is possible to have two swells
>     > referencing the same stop, and their effects are additive, so I can
>     > have a master swell for each 'division' and seperate balance
>     controls
>     > for each 'sound' in that 'division'
>     >
>     > Unlike a theatre organ, the 'divisions' will be rigidly attached
>     > to keyboards, and the master swell for each 'division' will be
>     > operated by the slide on each keyboard.
>     >
>     > What I want now is the preset piston to 'remember' how much of
>     > each 'sound' was used in a particular registration...
>     >
>     > ... Just like my (Now defunct, sadly, ) Technics SX-EA5.
>     >
>     > Have fun,
>     >
>     > Roy.
>     >
>     > */Sven Meier /* wrote:
>     >
>     > Hi John,
>     >
>     > yes, the Captor element replaces the old CTRL key usage.
>     > I change this because
>     > - some people preferred a separate element to click on,
>     > - it was nicer to implement in jOrgan (nothing a user would notice
>     > though) and
>     > - it freed the CTRL key for other usages.
>     >
>     > Regretfully this doesn't allow the usage you're describing at the
>     > moment. You cannot use CTRL alone to arm the Captor. I'll have to
>     > look
>     > up why we have this restriction - I think it should be possible to
>     > use it.
>     >
>     > Sven
>     >
>     > [hidden email] wrote:
>     > > Hello All,
>     > >
>     > > It appears that the material is being organized very well in the
>     > wiki,
>     > > and will soon be usable as a kind of Help function for jOrgan.
>     This
>     > > will be a great improvement over the previous jOrgan website.
>     > >
>     > > So, now we need to begin using this e-mail list as a discussion
>     > forum.
>     > >
>     > > Soooooooooooooo ............. Here goes the first question for
>     > > discussion, and I hope that I will get some advice:
>     > >
>     > > Beginning with version 2.3, the "Set" button is no longer the CTRL
>     > > key, but can be assigned to any key on the keyboard, right? And
>     > there
>     > > is a special element just for that, called "Captor," right?
>     > >
>     > > You tap the Captor once, then tap the piston that you want to set.
>     > >
>     > > Now, what if I'd rather have it work like the old CTRL key,
>     where I
>     > > hold the Captor and keep holding it while I tap the piston I
>     > wish to
>     > > set? The reason I'm asking, I've been considering adding some
>     > > secondary switch contacts to the existing pistons on my Rodgers so
>     > > that I can simultaneously set Rodgers stops and jOrgan stops
>     > using the
>     > > general pistons on the console. That will require that my Set
>     > (Captor)
>     > > button work like the old CTRL key, since I must hold it in while
>     > > performing a set on the Rodgers capture action.
>     > >
>     > > Can I do this? (I think I may know how, or at least I have an
>     idea,
>     > > but I want to see who will chime in to suggest something.)
>     > >
>     > > John Birdsong
>     > > Choirmaster/Organist
>     > > Bono Baptist Church
>     > > Greenbrier, Arkansas
>     > > Home 501-679-4586
>     > > Cell 501-730-4883
>     > > Church 501-679-0509
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > **************************************
>     > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about
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