Musical pistons!

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Musical pistons!

Graham Harrison
Hi guys
 
Here's a brain-teaser:
I thought I had got my pistons up and running satisfactorily.
However, using Linux/Qsynth/Fluidsynth I find that if I press Piston number 7, the correct preset combination is set up - and also, note d#4 on the Great division speaks!
The message that is transmitted when I press Piston number 7 is <146, 75, 100> on channel 3.
The correct message for causing d#4 to speak is <144, 75, 103> on channel 1.  (d#4 is, of course, MIDI note number 75.)
 
I already concluded it couldn't be a wiring error, because the same thing does not happen with Windows/sfz.
No, it doesn't - instead with Windows/sfz, Piston number 1 causes note a3 on the Great to speak!
The message that is transmitted when I press Piston number 1 is <146, 69, 100> on channel 3.
The correct message for causing a3 to speak is <144, 69, 103> on channel 1.  (a3 is MIDI note number 69)
 
I can only conclude that this is a phenomenon that arises when you use jOrgan's Midi Merger under Windows, or ALSA's virmidi (which does the equivalent job) under Linux.
Obviously it means that using spare contacts on a pedal keyboard encoder in order to activate pistons is not a practical proposition.  However, it is probably OK to use spare pins on a manual keyboard encoder, because in that case, the corresponding MIDI note numbers would be greater than 96, and therefore beyond the range of the actual notes on any of the keyboards.
 
Sorry, Jim - I'm not altogether converted to Midi Merger after all!
 
Graham

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Re: Musical pistons!

RoyR
Hi, Graham,
 
                 I said this before, but it seems to have got buried!
 
   Could this have anything to do with MIDI OMNI mode? I don't whether or not that is implemented in jOrgan, but presumably it would then ignore channel data.
 
     Have fun,
 
        Roy.

Graham Harrison <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi guys
 
Here's a brain-teaser:
I thought I had got my pistons up and running satisfactorily.
However, using Linux/Qsynth/Fluidsynth I find that if I press Piston number 7, the correct preset combination is set up - and also, note d#4 on the Great division speaks!
The message that is transmitted when I press Piston number 7 is <146, 75, 100> on channel 3.
The correct message for causing d#4 to speak is <144, 75, 103> on channel 1.  (d#4 is, of course, MIDI note number 75.)
 
I already concluded it couldn't be a wiring error, because the same thing does not happen with Windows/sfz.
No, it doesn't - instead with Windows/sfz, Piston number 1 causes note a3 on the Great to speak!
The message that is transmitted when I press Piston number 1 is <146, 69, 100> on channel 3.
The correct message for causing a3 to speak is <144, 69, 103> on channel 1.  (a3 is MIDI note number 69)
 
I can only conclude that this is a phenomenon that arises when you use jOrgan's Midi Merger under Windows, or ALSA's virmidi (which does the equivalent job) under Linux.
Obviously it means that using spare contacts on a pedal keyboard encoder in order to activate pistons is not a practical proposition.  However, it is probably OK to use spare pins on a manual keyboard encoder, because in that case, the corresponding MIDI note numbers would be greater than 96, and therefore beyond the range of the actual notes on any of the keyboards.
 
Sorry, Jim - I'm not altogether converted to Midi Merger after all!
 
Graham
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Re: Musical pistons!

Graham Harrison
Hi Roy
 
Yes - I read what you said before, and I read up about it!  But there isn't any way I can select or deselect OMNI mode with my hardware, so I doubt if that is the problem - and if it were, why would it only be on one piston in each operating system?  I'm putting my money on the midi-merging software!
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Musical pistons!

Hi, Graham,
 
                 I said this before, but it seems to have got buried!
 
   Could this have anything to do with MIDI OMNI mode? I don't whether or not that is implemented in jOrgan, but presumably it would then ignore channel data.
 
     Have fun,
 
        Roy.

Graham Harrison <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi guys
 
Here's a brain-teaser:
I thought I had got my pistons up and running satisfactorily.
However, using Linux/Qsynth/Fluidsynth I find that if I press Piston number 7, the correct preset combination is set up - and also, note d#4 on the Great division speaks!
The message that is transmitted when I press Piston number 7 is <146, 75, 100> on channel 3.
The correct message for causing d#4 to speak is <144, 75, 103> on channel 1.  (d#4 is, of course, MIDI note number 75.)
 
I already concluded it couldn't be a wiring error, because the same thing does not happen with Windows/sfz.
No, it doesn't - instead with Windows/sfz, Piston number 1 causes note a3 on the Great to speak!
The message that is transmitted when I press Piston number 1 is <146, 69, 100> on channel 3.
The correct message for causing a3 to speak is <144, 69, 103> on channel 1.  (a3 is MIDI note number 69)
 
I can only conclude that this is a phenomenon that arises when you use jOrgan's Midi Merger under Windows, or ALSA's virmidi (which does the equivalent job) under Linux.
Obviously it means that using spare contacts on a pedal keyboard encoder in order to activate pistons is not a practical proposition.  However, it is probably OK to use spare pins on a manual keyboard encoder, because in that case, the corresponding MIDI note numbers would be greater than 96, and therefore beyond the range of the actual notes on any of the keyboards.
 
Sorry, Jim - I'm not altogether converted to Midi Merger after all!
 
Graham
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Re: Musical pistons!

Michael Gedz
Graham,
I am not familiar with your setup (I probably should be). I am using 2  
synths as keyboards, and had a problem where if I turned some stops on and  
off (jorgan), the swells would start to gyrate and other stops would turn  
on and off (pistons activated?) until I changed to design mode. I probably  
did not mention it on the forum because everyone would think I was nuts.  
Turned out to be that my keyboard controller was set to respond to all  
messages and send all messages and it was doing some translation.  
Interesting about the merge, though, because I have 2 MIDI merge boxes  
connecting my keyboards. The MIDI Echo function in my sequencer causes  
events to all fire twice if I select the Blaster MIDI as an input (It is  
my input into jorgan merger). All the inputs need to come from the virtual  
jorgan ports. I say all of this just to make you think about all the MIDI  
ports on your system, how they are connected and what settings the  
software / hardware might offer.

Good luck,
Mike



On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:55:27 -0400, Graham Harrison  
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Roy
>
> Yes - I read what you said before, and I read up about it!  But there  
> isn't any way I can select or deselect OMNI mode with my hardware, so I  
> doubt if that is the problem - and if it were, why would it only be on  
> one piston in each operating system?  I'm putting my money on the  
> midi-merging software!
>
> Graham
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Roy Radford
>   To: [hidden email]
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:55 PM
>   Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Musical pistons!
>
>
>   Hi, Graham,
>
>                    I said this before, but it seems to have got buried!
>
>      Could this have anything to do with MIDI OMNI mode? I don't whether  
> or not that is implemented in jOrgan, but presumably it would then  
> ignore channel data.
>
>        Have fun,
>
>           Roy.
>
>   Graham Harrison <[hidden email]> wrote:
>     Hi guys
>
>     Here's a brain-teaser:
>     I thought I had got my pistons up and running satisfactorily.
>     However, using Linux/Qsynth/Fluidsynth I find that if I press Piston  
> number 7, the correct preset combination is set up - and also, note d#4  
> on the Great division speaks!
>     The message that is transmitted when I press Piston number 7 is  
> <146, 75, 100> on channel 3.
>     The correct message for causing d#4 to speak is <144, 75, 103> on  
> channel 1.  (d#4 is, of course, MIDI note number 75.)
>
>     I already concluded it couldn't be a wiring error, because the same  
> thing does not happen with Windows/sfz.
>     No, it doesn't - instead with Windows/sfz, Piston number 1 causes  
> note a3 on the Great to speak!
>     The message that is transmitted when I press Piston number 1 is  
> <146, 69, 100> on channel 3.
>     The correct message for causing a3 to speak is <144, 69, 103> on  
> channel 1.  (a3 is MIDI note number 69)
>
>     I can only conclude that this is a phenomenon that arises when you  
> use jOrgan's Midi Merger under Windows, or ALSA's virmidi (which does  
> the equivalent job) under Linux.
>     Obviously it means that using spare contacts on a pedal keyboard  
> encoder in order to activate pistons is not a practical proposition.  
> However, it is probably OK to use spare pins on a manual keyboard  
> encoder, because in that case, the corresponding MIDI note numbers would  
> be greater than 96, and therefore beyond the range of the actual notes  
> on any of the keyboards.
>
>     Sorry, Jim - I'm not altogether converted to Midi Merger after all!
>
>     Graham
>     -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 4/17/2007 04:43



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Re: Musical pistons!

Nice Pipes
In reply to this post by Graham Harrison
Hello Graham
 
The following comments are based on the assumption that Midi Merger is working correctly.
 
Does the problem occur with ALL your pistons driven by Pedal Note_On messages, you only mention pistons 1 and 7?
 
It sounds to me like there could possibly be some "hidden coupling", Great to Pedal, going on here.
 
I don't understand though, why you get different results for two different set-ups!.
 
This is a total shot in the dark, but it may be  worth thinking about.
 
Good Luck
 
Peter
 
 

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Re: Musical pistons!

Jim Pinder
In reply to this post by Graham Harrison

Graham and all - The other alternative is, however,  GET A TOUCH SCREEN.

Having said that - Graham - have you used Midi Ox on its own with just you organ hardware to see what signal the hardware is actually sending. I am wondering if the fault lies in the encoding end, trying to combine stop, pistons etc with note information, or in jOrgans interpretation.

 If you are using spare note positions, there is no reason I can see why the information into jOrgan is not in the form of a note message - all the hardware sees is a switch closing - and wouldn't know wether it was a key switch or a push button.

I am using the Midiboutique stuff and as far as I can remember, there was no way to curtail the extra notes - you just didn't use them - hence they should all go into jOrgan as note information.

The only thing then is curtailing the notes is the jOrgan keyboard where you specify the note range. If you curtail the pedal board, then jOrgan will only use 28 notes or whatever - and if one comes in out of range then the result may be an indeterminate code.

Why don't you extend your keyboards to include the "piston" notes, and see what happens then - you should be able to sound notes using the pistons - (unless, or course your soundfont is curtailed). If you can sound the notes, then at least you know jOrgan is getting the information in a form it recognises.

It may be that you have to extend your soundfont to cover the notes you are using as pistons, by using "silence" and then jOrgan will interpret the code correctly and also operate the piston. 



 

----Original Message----
From: [hidden email]
Date: 17/04/2007 20:32
To: <[hidden email]>
Subj: Re: [jOrgan-user] Musical pistons!

Hello Graham
 
The following comments are based on the assumption that Midi Merger is working correctly.
 
Does the problem occur with ALL your pistons driven by Pedal Note_On messages, you only mention pistons 1 and 7?
 
It sounds to me like there could possibly be some "hidden coupling", Great to Pedal, going on here.
 
I don't understand though, why you get different results for two different set-ups!.
 
This is a total shot in the dark, but it may be  worth thinking about.
 
Good Luck
 
Peter
 
 


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Re: Musical pistons!

Sven Meier
Administrator
In reply to this post by Graham Harrison
Hi Graham,

that's an interesting puzzle.

Please give us some more details:
- what's the setup of the jorgan midi merger (which devices, which channel settings)?
- what's the value of the channel property of your great division keyboard?

Sven
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Re: [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

Graham Harrison
Hi Sven
This would be easier to explain with a pencil and paper!  It's quite simple really, but it's obvious from the various suggestions posted so far that people haven't understood how basically simple the set-up is.  Here goes:
 
1. Physical connections:
 
GREAT keyboard > mpc64 encoder #1 set to MIDI channel 1 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in A > PC  via USB port
SWELL keyboard > mpc64 encoder #2 set to MIDI channel 2 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in B > ditto
PEDAL keyboard > mpc40 encoder #3 set to MIDI channel 3 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in C > ditto
CHOIR  keyboard > mkc-x  encoder #4 set to MIDI channel 4 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in D > ditto
STOP TABS  etc > mpc64 encoder #5 set to MIDI channel 5 > SB Audigy MIDI IO port > PC via PCI slot
PISTONS 1-8 > unused pins on PEDAL mpc40 encoder #3 (set to MIDI channel 3 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in C > PC  via USB port)
 
All MIDI encoder channel assignments are set by means of dil switches, and therefore "fixed".
All five MIDI encoders send simple Note on and Note off messages, for example 
GREAT Note on message = [144, nn, 103];  GREAT Note off message = [128, nn, 103]
where nn = MIDI note number (range36 - 96) and 103 is velocity set by dil switch
PEDAL Note on message = [146, nn, 100];  PEDAL Note off message = [130, nn, 100]
where nn = MIDI note number (Range 36 - 67) and 100 is velocity set by dil switch.
PISTON activate message = [146, nn, 100]
where nn = MIDI note number (Range 68-75 i.e. unused "notes" on Pedal encoder).
 
BUT one piston (only) is causing one note to sound i.e. Piston number 1 sending message [146, 69, 100] is causing note 69 on Great manual to sound – but this note should only respond to message [144, 69, 103].  The other pistons are NOT musical!
(BTW - I ascertain these MIDI messages from jOrgan's "Waiting for message" feature.  I refuse to make my system even more complicated by installing MIDI-OX!)
 
2. jOrgan connections:
Originally, keyboards' devices were designated “In-A USB Midisport:4x4” ETC., and console device was designated “SB Audigy 2ZS MIDI IO [B800]” in Construct/Properties.
With this configuration, pistons on screen (presumably expecting messages via SB Audigy MIDI IO port) could not receive messages from physical pistons (via channel 3 and Midisport), so I re-configured using jOrgan Midi Merger as follows:
Console, three manual keyboards, one pedal keyboard and one stop rail all have device “jOrgan Midi Merger” in Construct/Properties.
And in View/Configuation/Midi/Midi-Merger, I have the following devices ticked:
In-A USB MidiSport 4x4
In-B USB MidiSport 4x4
In-C USB MidiSport 4x4
In-D USB MidiSport 4x4
SB Audigy 2ZS MIDI IO [B800]
 
“Channel” in jOrgan Midi Merger is "0" (zero) in all cases.
 
With this configuration, the physical pistons activate their on-screen counterparts, but one of them is also musical!
 
Have fun! - Well - it's more interesting than Sudoku!
 
Graham
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "svenmeier" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

>

> Hi Graham,
>
> that's an interesting puzzle.
>
> Please give us some more details:
> - what's the setup of the jorgan midi merger (which devices, which channel
> settings)?
> - what's the value of the channel property of your great division keyboard?
>
> Sven
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Musical-pistons%21-tf3590706.html#a10077337
> Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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>
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Re: [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

Jim Pinder
In reply to this post by Graham Harrison

Graham - As a matter of interest - does it also respond to the note off message, when you release the piston, or is it "stuck on"

 

Jim



 

----Original Message----
From: [hidden email]
Date: 19/04/2007 16:34
To: <[hidden email]>
Subj: Re: [jOrgan-user] [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

Hi Sven
This would be easier to explain with a pencil and paper!  It's quite simple really, but it's obvious from the various suggestions posted so far that people haven't understood how basically simple the set-up is.  Here goes:
 
1. Physical connections:
 
GREAT keyboard > mpc64 encoder #1 set to MIDI channel 1 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in A > PC  via USB port
SWELL keyboard > mpc64 encoder #2 set to MIDI channel 2 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in B > ditto
PEDAL keyboard > mpc40 encoder #3 set to MIDI channel 3 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in C > ditto
CHOIR  keyboard > mkc-x  encoder #4 set to MIDI channel 4 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in D > ditto
STOP TABS  etc > mpc64 encoder #5 set to MIDI channel 5 > SB Audigy MIDI IO port > PC via PCI slot
PISTONS 1-8 > unused pins on PEDAL mpc40 encoder #3 (set to MIDI channel 3 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in C > PC  via USB port)
 
All MIDI encoder channel assignments are set by means of dil switches, and therefore "fixed".
All five MIDI encoders send simple Note on and Note off messages, for example 
GREAT Note on message = [144, nn, 103];  GREAT Note off message = [128, nn, 103]
where nn = MIDI note number (range36 - 96) and 103 is velocity set by dil switch
PEDAL Note on message = [146, nn, 100];  PEDAL Note off message = [130, nn, 100]
where nn = MIDI note number (Range 36 - 67) and 100 is velocity set by dil switch.
PISTON activate message = [146, nn, 100]
where nn = MIDI note number (Range 68-75 i.e. unused "notes" on Pedal encoder).
 
BUT one piston (only) is causing one note to sound i.e. Piston number 1 sending message [146, 69, 100] is causing note 69 on Great manual to sound – but this note should only respond to message [144, 69, 103].  The other pistons are NOT musical!
(BTW - I ascertain these MIDI messages from jOrgan's "Waiting for message" feature.  I refuse to make my system even more complicated by installing MIDI-OX!)
 
2. jOrgan connections:
Originally, keyboards' devices were designated “In-A USB Midisport:4x4” ETC., and console device was designated “SB Audigy 2ZS MIDI IO [B800]” in Construct/Properties.
With this configuration, pistons on screen (presumably expecting messages via SB Audigy MIDI IO port) could not receive messages from physical pistons (via channel 3 and Midisport), so I re-configured using jOrgan Midi Merger as follows:
Console, three manual keyboards, one pedal keyboard and one stop rail all have device “jOrgan Midi Merger” in Construct/Properties.
And in View/Configuation/Midi/Midi-Merger, I have the following devices ticked:
In-A USB MidiSport 4x4
In-B USB MidiSport 4x4
In-C USB MidiSport 4x4
In-D USB MidiSport 4x4
SB Audigy 2ZS MIDI IO [B800]
 
“Channel” in jOrgan Midi Merger is "0" (zero) in all cases.
 
With this configuration, the physical pistons activate their on-screen counterparts, but one of them is also musical!
 
Have fun! - Well - it's more interesting than Sudoku!
 
Graham
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "svenmeier" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

>

> Hi Graham,
>
> that's an interesting puzzle.
>
> Please give us some more details:
> - what's the setup of the jorgan midi merger (which devices, which channel
> settings)?
> - what's the value of the channel property of your great division keyboard?
>
> Sven
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Musical-pistons%21-tf3590706.html#a10077337
> Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>
>
> --
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.4/768 - Release Date: 4/19/2007 05:32
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Re: [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

Graham Harrison
Jim - I nearly included this in my blurb!  Yes - the note sounds when you press the piston; the note stops sounding when you release the piston.
In other words, the PISTON is behaving exactly as one would expect - when you press it, the encoder sends a note-on message; when you release it, the encoder sends a note-off message.  The problem is (apparently) that a note on the Great manual is responding to this midi message - even though it is on the "wrong" channel and at the "wrong" velocity.
Graham
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

Graham - As a matter of interest - does it also respond to the note off message, when you release the piston, or is it "stuck on"

 

Jim



 

----Original Message----
From: [hidden email]
Date: 19/04/2007 16:34
To: <[hidden email]>
Subj: Re: [jOrgan-user] [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

Hi Sven
This would be easier to explain with a pencil and paper!  It's quite simple really, but it's obvious from the various suggestions posted so far that people haven't understood how basically simple the set-up is.  Here goes:
 
1. Physical connections:
 
GREAT keyboard > mpc64 encoder #1 set to MIDI channel 1 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in A > PC  via USB port
SWELL keyboard > mpc64 encoder #2 set to MIDI channel 2 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in B > ditto
PEDAL keyboard > mpc40 encoder #3 set to MIDI channel 3 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in C > ditto
CHOIR  keyboard > mkc-x  encoder #4 set to MIDI channel 4 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in D > ditto
STOP TABS  etc > mpc64 encoder #5 set to MIDI channel 5 > SB Audigy MIDI IO port > PC via PCI slot
PISTONS 1-8 > unused pins on PEDAL mpc40 encoder #3 (set to MIDI channel 3 > Midisport 4x4 MIDI-in C > PC  via USB port)
 
All MIDI encoder channel assignments are set by means of dil switches, and therefore "fixed".
All five MIDI encoders send simple Note on and Note off messages, for example 
GREAT Note on message = [144, nn, 103];  GREAT Note off message = [128, nn, 103]
where nn = MIDI note number (range36 - 96) and 103 is velocity set by dil switch
PEDAL Note on message = [146, nn, 100];  PEDAL Note off message = [130, nn, 100]
where nn = MIDI note number (Range 36 - 67) and 100 is velocity set by dil switch.
PISTON activate message = [146, nn, 100]
where nn = MIDI note number (Range 68-75 i.e. unused "notes" on Pedal encoder).
 
BUT one piston (only) is causing one note to sound i.e. Piston number 1 sending message [146, 69, 100] is causing note 69 on Great manual to sound – but this note should only respond to message [144, 69, 103].  The other pistons are NOT musical!
(BTW - I ascertain these MIDI messages from jOrgan's "Waiting for message" feature.  I refuse to make my system even more complicated by installing MIDI-OX!)
 
2. jOrgan connections:
Originally, keyboards' devices were designated “In-A USB Midisport:4x4” ETC., and console device was designated “SB Audigy 2ZS MIDI IO [B800]” in Construct/Properties.
With this configuration, pistons on screen (presumably expecting messages via SB Audigy MIDI IO port) could not receive messages from physical pistons (via channel 3 and Midisport), so I re-configured using jOrgan Midi Merger as follows:
Console, three manual keyboards, one pedal keyboard and one stop rail all have device “jOrgan Midi Merger” in Construct/Properties.
And in View/Configuation/Midi/Midi-Merger, I have the following devices ticked:
In-A USB MidiSport 4x4
In-B USB MidiSport 4x4
In-C USB MidiSport 4x4
In-D USB MidiSport 4x4
SB Audigy 2ZS MIDI IO [B800]
 
“Channel” in jOrgan Midi Merger is "0" (zero) in all cases.
 
With this configuration, the physical pistons activate their on-screen counterparts, but one of them is also musical!
 
Have fun! - Well - it's more interesting than Sudoku!
 
Graham
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "svenmeier" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

>

> Hi Graham,
>
> that's an interesting puzzle.
>
> Please give us some more details:
> - what's the setup of the jorgan midi merger (which devices, which channel
> settings)?
> - what's the value of the channel property of your great division keyboard?
>
> Sven
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Musical-pistons%21-tf3590706.html#a10077337
> Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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Re: [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

Bruce Miles-3
Graham,

Would the jOrgan Midi Monitor be of any help on this . What messages is
jOrgan actually sending ? Is actually sending a note on message when you
operate the musical piston ? Saves messing about with Midiox.

BTW - the 'Select Device to Monitor'  window header is misleading  -
selecting the device does nothing - you have to check the checkbox for
the device. I bet this foxed a few people.

Cheers,

Bruce

Graham Harrison wrote:

> Jim - I nearly included this in my blurb!  Yes - the note sounds when
> you press the piston; the note stops sounding when you release the piston.
> In other words, the PISTON is behaving exactly as one would expect -
> when you press it, the encoder sends a note-on message; when you
> release it, the encoder sends a note-off message.  The problem is
> (apparently) that a note on the Great manual is responding to this
> midi message - even though it is on the "wrong" channel and at the
> "wrong" velocity.
> Graham
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     *To:* [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     *Sent:* Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:18 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!
>
>     Graham - As a matter of interest - does it also respond to the
>     note off message, when you release the piston, or is it "stuck on"
>
>      
>
>


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Re: [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

Graham Harrison
Hi Bruce

I just checked with jOrgan's Midi Monitor - and it only confirms what I had
already ascertained using jOrgan's "Waiting for Message" facility - namely
that when you press the piston, jOrgan Midi Merger receives the message
[146, 69, 100] on channel 3; when you release the piston the message is
[130, 69, 100] on channel 3 -as per my last but one message.
HOWEVER -and this is where things get really confusing - THE PISTON IS
SILENT TODAY !!!!!  I find this quite incredible!  I have tried re-booting,
but I can't make it perform!

As a point of interest, I still (today) get the equivalent problem under
Linux with Piston number 7, but I guess Linux is another ball-game.....

Graham


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Miles" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!


> Graham,
>
> Would the jOrgan Midi Monitor be of any help on this . What messages is
> jOrgan actually sending ? Is actually sending a note on message when you
> operate the musical piston ? Saves messing about with Midiox.
>
> BTW - the 'Select Device to Monitor'  window header is misleading  -
> selecting the device does nothing - you have to check the checkbox for
> the device. I bet this foxed a few people.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bruce
>
> Graham Harrison wrote:
>> Jim - I nearly included this in my blurb!  Yes - the note sounds when
>> you press the piston; the note stops sounding when you release the
>> piston.
>> In other words, the PISTON is behaving exactly as one would expect -
>> when you press it, the encoder sends a note-on message; when you
>> release it, the encoder sends a note-off message.  The problem is
>> (apparently) that a note on the Great manual is responding to this
>> midi message - even though it is on the "wrong" channel and at the
>> "wrong" velocity.
>> Graham
>>
>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>     *From:* [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     *To:* [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     *Sent:* Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:18 PM
>>     *Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!
>>
>>     Graham - As a matter of interest - does it also respond to the
>>     note off message, when you release the piston, or is it "stuck on"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
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>
> --
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.4/768 - Release Date: 4/19/2007
> 05:32
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Re: [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

Nice Pipes
Hello Graham
Pleased to hear that one set of your musical pistons has fallen silent!
However, it would have been interesting to know what was causing the
problem.

My gut instinct still favours the "hidden coupling" I referred to earlier.

Doesn't it mean though, that using Pedal Note_On/Off, that you won't be able
to couple your other divisions to the Pedal, since they will sound when you
actuate the pistons 1 to 7.

Good Luck

Peter






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Re: [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

Graham Harrison
Hello Peter

It would indeed have been interesting to know what was causing the problem -
but with no way of replicating it (unless it comes back voluntarily) - I
doubt if we shall ever know.
The problems with couplers that you ask about simply don't happen.
Everything is behaving as I would have anticipated.  Basically, if all the
MIDI messages retain their integrity - in particualer as regards MIDI
channel number - as they pass through the various hardware and software
stages, there should not be a problem.
My hunch is still that it is a software phenomenon arisong from the way
jOrgan Midi Merger works.  For example - when I press a piston, jOrgan's
Midi Monitor only sees a single Note-on message at the appropriate Midisport
4x4 input.  But it sees that same message five times over at jOrgan's Midi
Merger - presumably because five physical ports are "connected" to jOrgan's
Midi Merger ... ?

As for the Linux scenario - it's not surprising if some MIDI messages get
mis-routed, or misinterpreted - because I'm having to use a virtual MIDI
port that's already being used for something else, in order to work around
the fact that under Linux, jOrgan doesn't recognise all four inputs of my
Midisport 4x4.

Graham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Nicholson" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!


> Hello Graham
> Pleased to hear that one set of your musical pistons has fallen silent!
> However, it would have been interesting to know what was causing the
> problem.
>
> My gut instinct still favours the "hidden coupling" I referred to earlier.
>
> Doesn't it mean though, that using Pedal Note_On/Off, that you won't be
> able
> to couple your other divisions to the Pedal, since they will sound when
> you
> actuate the pistons 1 to 7.
>
> Good Luck
>
> Peter
>


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Re: [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

Graham Harrison
In reply to this post by Nice Pipes
Hi Guys

Thought you might like to know - I think I've solved the "musical pistons"
problem on my jOrgan/Linux/Qsynth set up.
Checking things with jOrgan Midi Monitor, I could see that when I pressed
and released the offending piston (number 7), the correct Note-on /Note-off
messages appeared at the input of [virmidi 1,3].
At the output of [virmidi 1,3] various Control Change and Program Change
messages appeared - i.e. messages corresponding to the stop selection
controlled  by piston number 7.
BUT ALSO, the incoming Note-on /Note-off messages were being echoed (well,
sort of) on several channels.
When I checked the output messages of [virmidi 1,3] for the other pistons,
only Control Change and program Change messages appeared, but not Note-on
/Note-off messages.  (Incidentally piston number 7 is connected to the last
pin (number 40 = non-existent note d#5) on my mpc40 Pedal encoder.)
Then I remembered something Jim wrote - and I checked the Note Range under
Pedal keyboard Properties.  Guess what - I hadn't adjusted it from the
default c2 - c7.
I have now adjusted it to c2 - g5, and note d#5 on the Great no longer
speaks when I press piston number 7.  :-))

Thank you Jim (and everybody else who contributed to this one).

By the way, Sven - when making an alteration like this in Properties, you
have to highlight the entry, make the change, and then CLICK SOMEWHERE ELSE
in order to make the change apply.  Is this OK?

Graham



>


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Re: [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

RoyR
Hi, Graham,
 
                    With regard to clicking somewhere else to confirm the note-range change, I have found that the same thing applies to using the 'waiting for message' dialogue to set the keyboard slides to work a swell. If I wiggle a slide, the message box clears, but if I then go straight out of build mode, the swell usually doesn't work. If I click somewhere else first, it works fine.
 
     Have fun,
 
         Roy.

Graham Harrison <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Guys

Thought you might like to know - I think I've solved the "musical pistons"
problem on my jOrgan/Linux/Qsynth set up.
Checking things with jOrgan Midi Monitor, I could see that when I pressed
and released the offending piston (number 7), the correct Note-on /Note-off
messages appeared at the input of [virmidi 1,3].
At the output of [virmidi 1,3] various Control Change and Program Change
messages appeared - i.e. messages corresponding to the stop selection
controlled by piston number 7.
BUT ALSO, the incoming Note-on /Note-off messages were being echoed (well,
sort of) on several channels.
When I checked the output messages of [virmidi 1,3] for the other pistons,
only Control Change and program Change messages appeared, but not Note-on
/Note-off messages. (Incidentally piston number 7 is connected to the last
pin (number 40 = non-existent note d#5) on my mpc40 Pedal encoder.)
Then I remembered something Jim wrote - and I checked the Note Range under
Pedal keyboard Properties. Guess what - I hadn't adjusted it from the
default c2 - c7.
I have now adjusted it to c2 - g5, and note d#5 on the Great no longer
speaks when I press piston number 7. :-))

Thank you Jim (and everybody else who contributed to this one).

By the way, Sven - when making an alteration like this in Properties, you
have to highlight the entry, make the change, and then CLICK SOMEWHERE ELSE
in order to make the change apply. Is this OK?

Graham



>


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Re: [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

Graham Harrison
<< I have now adjusted it to c2 - g5, and note d#5 on the Great no longer
speaks when I press piston number 7. :-)) >>
 
That should, of course, read:
I have now adjusted it to c2 - g4, and note d#5 on the Great no longer
speaks when I press piston number 7. :-))
 
G


 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

Hi, Graham,
 
                    With regard to clicking somewhere else to confirm the note-range change, I have found that the same thing applies to using the 'waiting for message' dialogue to set the keyboard slides to work a swell. If I wiggle a slide, the message box clears, but if I then go straight out of build mode, the swell usually doesn't work. If I click somewhere else first, it works fine.
 
     Have fun,
 
         Roy.

Graham Harrison <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Guys

Thought you might like to know - I think I've solved the "musical pistons"
problem on my jOrgan/Linux/Qsynth set up.
Checking things with jOrgan Midi Monitor, I could see that when I pressed
and released the offending piston (number 7), the correct Note-on /Note-off
messages appeared at the input of [virmidi 1,3].
At the output of [virmidi 1,3] various Control Change and Program Change
messages appeared - i.e. messages corresponding to the stop selection
controlled by piston number 7.
BUT ALSO, the incoming Note-on /Note-off messages were being echoed (well,
sort of) on several channels.
When I checked the output messages of [virmidi 1,3] for the other pistons,
only Control Change and program Change messages appeared, but not Note-on
/Note-off messages. (Incidentally piston number 7 is connected to the last
pin (number 40 = non-existent note d#5) on my mpc40 Pedal encoder.)
Then I remembered something Jim wrote - and I checked the Note Range under
Pedal keyboard Properties. Guess what - I hadn't adjusted it from the
default c2 - c7.
I have now adjusted it to c2 - g5, and note d#5 on the Great no longer
speaks when I press piston number 7. :-))

Thank you Jim (and everybody else who contributed to this one).

By the way, Sven - when making an alteration like this in Properties, you
have to highlight the entry, make the change, and then CLICK SOMEWHERE ELSE
in order to make the change apply. Is this OK?

Graham



>


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Re: [Jorgan-user] Musical pistons!

Sven Meier
Administrator
In reply to this post by Graham Harrison
Hi Graham,

ultimately you where the best candidate to solve your puzzle -
congratulations ;).

Gegarding the "click somewhere else" requirement. Yes, seems to be a bug
in the latest versions. I have fixed this issue and it will behave
properly in the next release.

Sven

Graham Harrison schrieb:

> Hi Guys
>
> Thought you might like to know - I think I've solved the "musical pistons"
> problem on my jOrgan/Linux/Qsynth set up.
> Checking things with jOrgan Midi Monitor, I could see that when I pressed
> and released the offending piston (number 7), the correct Note-on /Note-off
> messages appeared at the input of [virmidi 1,3].
> At the output of [virmidi 1,3] various Control Change and Program Change
> messages appeared - i.e. messages corresponding to the stop selection
> controlled  by piston number 7.
> BUT ALSO, the incoming Note-on /Note-off messages were being echoed (well,
> sort of) on several channels.
> When I checked the output messages of [virmidi 1,3] for the other pistons,
> only Control Change and program Change messages appeared, but not Note-on
> /Note-off messages.  (Incidentally piston number 7 is connected to the last
> pin (number 40 = non-existent note d#5) on my mpc40 Pedal encoder.)
> Then I remembered something Jim wrote - and I checked the Note Range under
> Pedal keyboard Properties.  Guess what - I hadn't adjusted it from the
> default c2 - c7.
> I have now adjusted it to c2 - g5, and note d#5 on the Great no longer
> speaks when I press piston number 7.  :-))
>
> Thank you Jim (and everybody else who contributed to this one).
>
> By the way, Sven - when making an alteration like this in Properties, you
> have to highlight the entry, make the change, and then CLICK SOMEWHERE ELSE
> in order to make the change apply.  Is this OK?
>
> Graham
>
>
>
>  
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
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>
>  


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