Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

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Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

John Reimer
Administrator
Hello to all

Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I have an 8 channel
audio system I am using with hauptwerk basic at this time but it only has 2
channel audio in the basic edition so I am not getting the full advantage
of my system. I used jorgan a few years ago but had a much smaller system
at the time. I don't want to spend money to get the advanced addition of
HW in that I think I like jorgan and grandorgue better and no cost. I do
however want to enjoy the advantage of my audio.

My question is does jorgan
have multi channel? My 3 manual digital organ has full midi from the
factory but is a model from early 90's and sound as good as todays
sampling. I am trying to gather information and advice from someone with
experience. Everything, pistons draw knobs, couplers expression is midi. I
would not need touch screens. I have considered Artisan sound engine but
very expensive.  I have a i5 dell fast processor with 1 tarabite and 16gigs
ram. If jorgan has multi channel with a little help configuring I have all
I need to have a great sounding organ without spending more. Any with
experience that can give some advice and a little help setting it up would
be most appreciated.

Best regards William

(William posted this elsewhere, but I have made a new a topic for it and copied the text here.
 This is not quite the correct way to handle it, but I do not know the correct way.
  It would help us all if you reply to it here rather than in the other thread.  John Reimer)
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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

jOrgan - User mailing list
This is specifically what I want to know as well.

I currently play 16 channels from my touring MidiTzer 216 dual manual on XP and 20 channels on my 3 manual 260 Wurli on XP. It is an awesome sound. (I wrote a 100-page tutorial how I did it, but too large a file to attach - although obsolete, it works well). I got away from organ passion for several (too many) years.

I had been on my way to set up a 5-manual instrument using jOrgan for its open architecture enabling me to create / modify / configure a unique theatre/symphony organ. I hoped to use a set of dual Delta 1010LTs in a brand new Win7 computer when I halted my projects.

As I am considering re-energizing my passion for organ, I have the XPs running my MidiTzers, but hit jOrgan just as it was falling apart. Hopefully, it will be healthy again soon as need it for my design. Now my unused, pristtine, virgin Win 7 is obsolete, and so are the dual Delta 1010s I had hoped to power 16 to 20 amplified speaker cabs and j-Organ in hiatus, and I cannot get drivers to power my Delta soundcards to drive my speakers.

20 discrete channels of MidiTzer sound is awesome, and the design I had planned for my j-Organ console is just what you speak of, EXCEPT I cannot get ahold of Win 7 driver to empower my 20 channels of Delta 1010LTs.

My alternatives are somehow to [make my Win 7 / dual Delta soundcards work as I had intended] or [go back to XP computers with SoundBlaster soundcards (I have several of these unused waiting) or see if I can use the Delta soundcards here in some of these XPs].

Originally I had hoped a fresh new Win 7 with dual new Deltas would run jOrgan powering 16 to 20 shannels (perhaps 16 organ soundfont ranks plus 4 channels of reverb.

Hopefully there will be response to this thread. Thank you for bringing it to our attention. I may pursue this opportunity a bit longer.

PK
StentorVoOx.com


On Tuesday, June 27, 2017, John Reimer wrote:

<snip>

Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I have an 8 channel
audio system I am using  . . . .
My question is does jorgan have multi channel?
Best regards William

(William posted this elsewhere, but I have made a new a topic for it and copied the text here.
It would help us all if you reply to it here rather than in the other thread
<snip>

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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

jOrgan - User mailing list

1010LT drivers for Win7 32 and 64bit are on the m-audio website.  Windows 7 Professional will be supported until approximately 2020.  Go for it.

Cheers

Marc-Paul

 


From: Paul Kealy via jOrgan-user [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 10:31 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Paul Kealy
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

 

This is specifically what I want to know as well.

 

I currently play 16 channels from my touring MidiTzer 216 dual manual on XP and 20 channels on my 3 manual 260 Wurli on XP. It is an awesome sound. (I wrote a 100-page tutorial how I did it, but too large a file to attach - although obsolete, it works well). I got away from organ passion for several (too many) years.

 

I had been on my way to set up a 5-manual instrument using jOrgan for its open architecture enabling me to create / modify / configure a unique theatre/symphony organ. I hoped to use a set of dual Delta 1010LTs in a brand new Win7 computer when I halted my projects.

 

As I am considering re-energizing my passion for organ, I have the XPs running my MidiTzers, but hit jOrgan just as it was falling apart. Hopefully, it will be healthy again soon as need it for my design. Now my unused, pristtine, virgin Win 7 is obsolete, and so are the dual Delta 1010s I had hoped to power 16 to 20 amplified speaker cabs and j-Organ in hiatus, and I cannot get drivers to power my Delta soundcards to drive my speakers.

 

20 discrete channels of MidiTzer sound is awesome, and the design I had planned for my j-Organ console is just what you speak of, EXCEPT I cannot get ahold of Win 7 driver to empower my 20 channels of Delta 1010LTs.

 

My alternatives are somehow to [make my Win 7 / dual Delta soundcards work as I had intended] or [go back to XP computers with SoundBlaster soundcards (I have several of these unused waiting) or see if I can use the Delta soundcards here in some of these XPs].

 

Originally I had hoped a fresh new Win 7 with dual new Deltas would run jOrgan powering 16 to 20 shannels (perhaps 16 organ soundfont ranks plus 4 channels of reverb.

 

Hopefully there will be response to this thread. Thank you for bringing it to our attention. I may pursue this opportunity a bit longer.

 

PK

StentorVoOx.com

 


On Tuesday, June 27, 2017, John Reimer wrote:

 

<snip>

 

Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I have an 8 channel

audio system I am using  . . . .

My question is does jorgan have multi channel?

Best regards William

 

(William posted this elsewhere, but I have made a new a topic for it and copied the text here.

It would help us all if you reply to it here rather than in the other thread

<snip>


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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

John Reimer
Administrator
In reply to this post by John Reimer
William,

Please read also the post greenfox has placed in the Release Samples thread where you placed your initial post. There is one statement he made there which isn't quite right. He said (as an example) that it is not possible to arrange for 3rds or 5ths to be placed in separate audio channels using jOrgan, although it can be done with Hauptwerk. However, it can be done in jOrgan, if you are prepared to learn how to edit the soundfont files. (And I have written a tutorial on using the soundfont editor Viena. It is in the Tutorials page on the jOrgan Wiki webpage.)

You have to learn to edit soundfont files anyway, if you plan to use jOrgan for more than two audio channels. Most existing jOrgan dispositions use only one soundfont, and it is commonly loaded into one instance of the sound engine Fluidsynth (although jOrgan is not limited to using Fluidsynth). For more than two audio channels, you will usually need more than one soundfont, and the way to get this is to divide up an existing soundfont into two or more.

greenfox has rightly pointed out that if you want to use jOrgan in the way you propose (and it certainly can be used in that way), you will need to learn quite a lot about making it happen.

John Reimer
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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

Aaron Laws
On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:55 AM, John Reimer <[hidden email]> wrote:
William,

Please read also the post greenfox has placed in the Release Samples thread
where you placed your initial post. There is one statement he made there
which isn't quite right. He said (as an example) that it is not possible to
arrange for 3rds or 5ths to be placed in separate audio channels using
jOrgan, although it can be done with Hauptwerk. However, it can be done in
jOrgan, if you are prepared to learn how to edit the soundfont files. (And I
have written a tutorial on using the soundfont editor Viena. It is in the
Tutorials page on the jOrgan Wiki webpage.)

You have to learn to edit soundfont files anyway, if you plan to use jOrgan
for more than two audio channels. Most existing jOrgan dispositions use only
one soundfont, and it is commonly loaded into one instance of the sound
engine Fluidsynth (although jOrgan is not limited to using Fluidsynth). For
more than two audio channels, you will usually need more than one soundfont,
and the way to get this is to divide up an existing soundfont into two or
more.

I think this isn't perfectly correct either. To divide up stops into more than two channels, you can also duplicate fluidsynth elements. This may be memory-taxing, and I haven't tried it, but it seems feasible as Jorgan doesn't require much memory anyway.
 

greenfox has rightly pointed out that if you want to use jOrgan in the way
you propose (and it certainly can be used in that way), you will need to
learn quite a lot about making it happen.

John Reimer

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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

lwalls
In reply to this post by John Reimer
Does jOrgan have multi channel WHAT?  multi channel MIDI? or multi channel AUDIO?

jOrgan itself supports an unlimited number of MIDI output channels.  Your ability to
actually utilize any number of MIDI channels is limited only by your computer's complement
of suitable MIDI devices.  For each such MIDI device (hard port or virtual port) defined
on your computer jOrgan would support 16 MIDI channels.

jOrgan does NOT support AUDIO channels at all!  jOrgan's ONLY output is one or more MIDI
message data streams.  Producing audio using jOrgan requires the presence of an internal
or external MIDI-controlled sound renderer (sound source, sound engine, etc.).

Examples of suitable SOFTWARE sound rendering apps include Fluidsynth, SFZ, GigaSampler
(obsolete), Grand Orgue, Hauptwerk, and many others.

Examples of suitable HARDWARE (external) sound renderers include any number of MIDI
controlled synthesizers made by Roland/Edirol, Korg, and many others.

Fluidsynth is a suitable totally software based sound renderer that is presently directly
loadable by jOrgan.  Each instance of a Fluidsynth Sound Source element configured within
your jOrgan disposition can only provide a single stereo (2-channel) output stream.  But
you can configure any number of Fluidsynth Sound Source elements within your jOrgan
disposition, limited only by the number of actual AUDIO devices available/configured on
your computer.

jOrgan is able to use more than 16 MIDI channels with each instance of an internal
Fluidsynth Sound Source element.   It passes jOrgan's MIDI message data directly to the
Fluidsynth app internally, and does NOT require the presence of any actual (real or
virtual) MIDI devices defined/configured on your computer.

But jOrgan can only use 16 MIDI channels with each external (real or virtual) MIDI device
configured on your computer.

CLW

-------------------------------------------------

On 6/27/2017 10:11 PM, John Reimer wrote:

> Hello to all
>
> Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I have an 8 channel
> audio system I am using with hauptwerk basic at this time but it only has 2
> channel audio in the basic edition so I am not getting the full advantage
> of my system. I used jorgan a few years ago but had a much smaller system
> at the time. I don't want to spend money to get the advanced addition of
> HW in that I think I like jorgan and grandorgue better and no cost. I do
> however want to enjoy the advantage of my audio.
>
> My question is does jorgan
> have multi channel?

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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

keith56
Good morning Lynn

I wish to thank you for your quick reply to may question. It is quite clear that you clearly see me as a complete idiot lol and I must admit my knowledge of VPO and jorgan is limited thus why I reached out to the jorgan community for help and advice. While my knowledge is very limited I do have the ability to understand.  I currently have an 8 channel MIDI/AUDIO interface connected between my audio system and computer and using Hauptwerk Basic Edition and playing thru 2 channels of my system as according to Hauptwerk I will need there advanced version to utilize all 8 channels. I reached out for help in hopes that jorgan may enable me to do so. I am an accomplished organist of 45 years and was blessed to have a father whom was an official church organist at age 14 and played in church every Sunday he lived up to 80 and played pipe organs all over the world. That said my experience as a organist by far exceeds that of my computer and software knowledge.  When I opened your email and saw three short questions WHAT? MIDI? AUDIO? before I was able to read further I knew I had ask a dumb question lol and felt you were unable to understand a complete idiot but continued to read further thinking there must be some answers and a load of information in the very detailed reply. That said it is no question you have quite a bit of expertize in VPO/Computer technology and were able to understand exactly what I was hoping to accomplish. As an experienced organist I often have questions from young students, or experienced pianist new to the organ reaching out for help and advice and the questions they ask, like myself with you, clearly show they need help and like you do all I can to help and share my God given talents. I used jorgan back in 2011 for about a year and really liked it and it appealed to me in that it was no cost and could learn before investing a fortune with the joran forum for help. I found my lack of knowledge didn't fit in with the community and went with hauptwerk. I was so impressed with jorgan and have heard some really great set ups and thought I would reach out again. I think with my limited knowledge with the more advanced VPO's set up I will go with a sound engine. All built in to one unit, no midi/audio interface needed, no external computer and no touch screen monitors. Being I have a 3 manual draw knob organ "fully" midi enabled from the factory with a very elaborate audio system it seems best to not have all the external gadgets of a hobbyist set up. I do however; want to thank you for taking the time and sharing a load of experienced information. Kind regards          

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:04 AM, Lynn Walls <[hidden email]> wrote:
Does jOrgan have multi channel WHAT?  multi channel MIDI? or multi channel AUDIO?

jOrgan itself supports an unlimited number of MIDI output channels.  Your ability to actually utilize any number of MIDI channels is limited only by your computer's complement of suitable MIDI devices.  For each such MIDI device (hard port or virtual port) defined on your computer jOrgan would support 16 MIDI channels.

jOrgan does NOT support AUDIO channels at all!  jOrgan's ONLY output is one or more MIDI message data streams.  Producing audio using jOrgan requires the presence of an internal or external MIDI-controlled sound renderer (sound source, sound engine, etc.).

Examples of suitable SOFTWARE sound rendering apps include Fluidsynth, SFZ, GigaSampler (obsolete), Grand Orgue, Hauptwerk, and many others.

Examples of suitable HARDWARE (external) sound renderers include any number of MIDI controlled synthesizers made by Roland/Edirol, Korg, and many others.

Fluidsynth is a suitable totally software based sound renderer that is presently directly loadable by jOrgan.  Each instance of a Fluidsynth Sound Source element configured within your jOrgan disposition can only provide a single stereo (2-channel) output stream.  But you can configure any number of Fluidsynth Sound Source elements within your jOrgan disposition, limited only by the number of actual AUDIO devices available/configured on your computer.

jOrgan is able to use more than 16 MIDI channels with each instance of an internal Fluidsynth Sound Source element.   It passes jOrgan's MIDI message data directly to the Fluidsynth app internally, and does NOT require the presence of any actual (real or virtual) MIDI devices defined/configured on your computer.

But jOrgan can only use 16 MIDI channels with each external (real or virtual) MIDI device configured on your computer.

CLW

-------------------------------------------------

On 6/27/2017 10:11 PM, John Reimer wrote:
Hello to all

Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I have an 8 channel
audio system I am using with hauptwerk basic at this time but it only has 2
channel audio in the basic edition so I am not getting the full advantage
of my system. I used jorgan a few years ago but had a much smaller system
at the time. I don't want to spend money to get the advanced addition of
HW in that I think I like jorgan and grandorgue better and no cost. I do
however want to enjoy the advantage of my audio.

My question is does jorgan
have multi channel?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user


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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

BrianS
Hi Keith.

You can have multi channel audio with jOrgan, by using multiple soundfonts, and PortAudio extensions and Jack Audio Connection Kit for Windows (or Linux?)

Graham Goode on this forum, is my go to person for this type of setup.  I think he has a tutorial on exactly this matter, but I don't know where to find it.

I also use Hauptwerk Adanced edition in order to get the multi channel audio, and it works like a dream.  However, I am busy building a very small VPO, it is running on Raspbian (Linux variant) for the Raspberry Pi, and my intension is to use up to 8 channels on this litlle system. Currently I only use 2 channels, because I am busy building the organ and disposition.  I hope this helps somewhat.

Regards,
Brian.
Regards,

BrianS
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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

Leisesturm
In reply to this post by keith56
William B.,
           I feel your pain (and frustration). I am in much the same boat. I am a long time organist and have spent the last 25 years working on advancing my organ technique and the administrative duties that go along with being a Director of Music. I do, however, have many years as a Computer Repair Technician, which doesn't necessarily make figuring out a VPO configuration any easier, but it does take out a lot of the intimidation factor! I feel that you are misguided in your belief that going to a hardware Sound Engine will eliminate any need to understand (or need for)  MIDI or Computers or Touch Screens, etc. I mean... how is your Sound Engine supposed to communicate with your organ console? MIDI of course, and you'd better be able to at least understand how MIDI assigns channels to organ divisions at a minimum. If I had a 3 manual drawknob organ fully MIDI'ed with a very elaborate audio system you had best believe I would be *playing* that beast, daily, instead of mucking around with VPO hardware and software! I don't care how 'bad' it sounds, it really can't sound that bad and be so substantial in its hardware offerings. Bottom line, I suspect that if you can get a hardware Sound Engine running with your organ console, you can also get J'Organ running, the demands on you are very similar in either case. FWIW.

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:09 AM, William Blalock <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good morning Lynn

I wish to thank you for your quick reply to may question. It is quite clear that you clearly see me as a complete idiot lol and I must admit my knowledge of VPO and jorgan is limited thus why I reached out to the jorgan community for help and advice. While my knowledge is very limited I do have the ability to understand.  I currently have an 8 channel MIDI/AUDIO interface connected between my audio system and computer and using Hauptwerk Basic Edition and playing thru 2 channels of my system as according to Hauptwerk I will need there advanced version to utilize all 8 channels. I reached out for help in hopes that jorgan may enable me to do so. I am an accomplished organist of 45 years and was blessed to have a father whom was an official church organist at age 14 and played in church every Sunday he lived up to 80 and played pipe organs all over the world. That said my experience as a organist by far exceeds that of my computer and software knowledge.  When I opened your email and saw three short questions WHAT? MIDI? AUDIO? before I was able to read further I knew I had ask a dumb question lol and felt you were unable to understand a complete idiot but continued to read further thinking there must be some answers and a load of information in the very detailed reply. That said it is no question you have quite a bit of expertize in VPO/Computer technology and were able to understand exactly what I was hoping to accomplish. As an experienced organist I often have questions from young students, or experienced pianist new to the organ reaching out for help and advice and the questions they ask, like myself with you, clearly show they need help and like you do all I can to help and share my God given talents. I used jorgan back in 2011 for about a year and really liked it and it appealed to me in that it was no cost and could learn before investing a fortune with the joran forum for help. I found my lack of knowledge didn't fit in with the community and went with hauptwerk. I was so impressed with jorgan and have heard some really great set ups and thought I would reach out again. I think with my limited knowledge with the more advanced VPO's set up I will go with a sound engine. All built in to one unit, no midi/audio interface needed, no external computer and no touch screen monitors. Being I have a 3 manual draw knob organ "fully" midi enabled from the factory with a very elaborate audio system it seems best to not have all the external gadgets of a hobbyist set up. I do however; want to thank you for taking the time and sharing a load of experienced information. Kind regards          

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:04 AM, Lynn Walls <[hidden email]> wrote:
Does jOrgan have multi channel WHAT?  multi channel MIDI? or multi channel AUDIO?

jOrgan itself supports an unlimited number of MIDI output channels.  Your ability to actually utilize any number of MIDI channels is limited only by your computer's complement of suitable MIDI devices.  For each such MIDI device (hard port or virtual port) defined on your computer jOrgan would support 16 MIDI channels.

jOrgan does NOT support AUDIO channels at all!  jOrgan's ONLY output is one or more MIDI message data streams.  Producing audio using jOrgan requires the presence of an internal or external MIDI-controlled sound renderer (sound source, sound engine, etc.).

Examples of suitable SOFTWARE sound rendering apps include Fluidsynth, SFZ, GigaSampler (obsolete), Grand Orgue, Hauptwerk, and many others.

Examples of suitable HARDWARE (external) sound renderers include any number of MIDI controlled synthesizers made by Roland/Edirol, Korg, and many others.

Fluidsynth is a suitable totally software based sound renderer that is presently directly loadable by jOrgan.  Each instance of a Fluidsynth Sound Source element configured within your jOrgan disposition can only provide a single stereo (2-channel) output stream.  But you can configure any number of Fluidsynth Sound Source elements within your jOrgan disposition, limited only by the number of actual AUDIO devices available/configured on your computer.

jOrgan is able to use more than 16 MIDI channels with each instance of an internal Fluidsynth Sound Source element.   It passes jOrgan's MIDI message data directly to the Fluidsynth app internally, and does NOT require the presence of any actual (real or virtual) MIDI devices defined/configured on your computer.

But jOrgan can only use 16 MIDI channels with each external (real or virtual) MIDI device configured on your computer.

CLW

-------------------------------------------------

On 6/27/2017 10:11 PM, John Reimer wrote:
Hello to all

Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I have an 8 channel
audio system I am using with hauptwerk basic at this time but it only has 2
channel audio in the basic edition so I am not getting the full advantage
of my system. I used jorgan a few years ago but had a much smaller system
at the time. I don't want to spend money to get the advanced addition of
HW in that I think I like jorgan and grandorgue better and no cost. I do
however want to enjoy the advantage of my audio.

My question is does jorgan
have multi channel?

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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

keith56
Thank you both for the information and I will most definitely consider your advice as I prefer not to spend a lot of money if I can accomplish this with less with a little help. As for the sound engine it is built by Artisan Organs in Washington State.  The sound engine is built on Linux and has pipe sampling by Wicks Pipe Organ witch Wicks uses for there hybrid organs as well as there full digital organs. My understanding is Artisan gets these from Wicks.   All you would have with computer, software, interface and sampling in one small unit. You buy the unit and select from a list the digital ranks of your preference classical or theater, They install and configure everything. You place inside the console and connect your midi and audio and ready. You can go to artisanorgans.com or artisan or google artisan digital ranks and see and here. I only wish I could find this in use on youtube or a forum with someone with knowledge of it. The sales rep for North Carolina where I live has one set up about a two hour drive from where I live but have not had the time to go see it. I will have to do so and talk to some who have before I buy but am very impressed with it thus far. All that said being I have a suitable computer relatively fast and a good 8 channel interface it would be nice to use what I have and spend no more or perhaps a lot less and be done. The Artisan Engine would be between $2500.00 and 3000.00. Todays digital sampling has come a long way from early 90's and could put my Organ to the equivalent of a high end organ of today with what I have. If I can find the help to do this with what I have and spend little or none it was my hope. You can see my Organ on google plus in the vpo section William K. Blalock. It shows it connected to a 2 channel MIDI/AUDIO interface by presonas but I have an 8 channel when I can connect to 8 channels. Again thank you all for replying and any help and advice you can give. Kind regards, Keith     

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Howard Ashley <[hidden email]> wrote:
William B.,
           I feel your pain (and frustration). I am in much the same boat. I am a long time organist and have spent the last 25 years working on advancing my organ technique and the administrative duties that go along with being a Director of Music. I do, however, have many years as a Computer Repair Technician, which doesn't necessarily make figuring out a VPO configuration any easier, but it does take out a lot of the intimidation factor! I feel that you are misguided in your belief that going to a hardware Sound Engine will eliminate any need to understand (or need for)  MIDI or Computers or Touch Screens, etc. I mean... how is your Sound Engine supposed to communicate with your organ console? MIDI of course, and you'd better be able to at least understand how MIDI assigns channels to organ divisions at a minimum. If I had a 3 manual drawknob organ fully MIDI'ed with a very elaborate audio system you had best believe I would be *playing* that beast, daily, instead of mucking around with VPO hardware and software! I don't care how 'bad' it sounds, it really can't sound that bad and be so substantial in its hardware offerings. Bottom line, I suspect that if you can get a hardware Sound Engine running with your organ console, you can also get J'Organ running, the demands on you are very similar in either case. FWIW.

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:09 AM, William Blalock <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good morning Lynn

I wish to thank you for your quick reply to may question. It is quite clear that you clearly see me as a complete idiot lol and I must admit my knowledge of VPO and jorgan is limited thus why I reached out to the jorgan community for help and advice. While my knowledge is very limited I do have the ability to understand.  I currently have an 8 channel MIDI/AUDIO interface connected between my audio system and computer and using Hauptwerk Basic Edition and playing thru 2 channels of my system as according to Hauptwerk I will need there advanced version to utilize all 8 channels. I reached out for help in hopes that jorgan may enable me to do so. I am an accomplished organist of 45 years and was blessed to have a father whom was an official church organist at age 14 and played in church every Sunday he lived up to 80 and played pipe organs all over the world. That said my experience as a organist by far exceeds that of my computer and software knowledge.  When I opened your email and saw three short questions WHAT? MIDI? AUDIO? before I was able to read further I knew I had ask a dumb question lol and felt you were unable to understand a complete idiot but continued to read further thinking there must be some answers and a load of information in the very detailed reply. That said it is no question you have quite a bit of expertize in VPO/Computer technology and were able to understand exactly what I was hoping to accomplish. As an experienced organist I often have questions from young students, or experienced pianist new to the organ reaching out for help and advice and the questions they ask, like myself with you, clearly show they need help and like you do all I can to help and share my God given talents. I used jorgan back in 2011 for about a year and really liked it and it appealed to me in that it was no cost and could learn before investing a fortune with the joran forum for help. I found my lack of knowledge didn't fit in with the community and went with hauptwerk. I was so impressed with jorgan and have heard some really great set ups and thought I would reach out again. I think with my limited knowledge with the more advanced VPO's set up I will go with a sound engine. All built in to one unit, no midi/audio interface needed, no external computer and no touch screen monitors. Being I have a 3 manual draw knob organ "fully" midi enabled from the factory with a very elaborate audio system it seems best to not have all the external gadgets of a hobbyist set up. I do however; want to thank you for taking the time and sharing a load of experienced information. Kind regards          

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:04 AM, Lynn Walls <[hidden email]> wrote:
Does jOrgan have multi channel WHAT?  multi channel MIDI? or multi channel AUDIO?

jOrgan itself supports an unlimited number of MIDI output channels.  Your ability to actually utilize any number of MIDI channels is limited only by your computer's complement of suitable MIDI devices.  For each such MIDI device (hard port or virtual port) defined on your computer jOrgan would support 16 MIDI channels.

jOrgan does NOT support AUDIO channels at all!  jOrgan's ONLY output is one or more MIDI message data streams.  Producing audio using jOrgan requires the presence of an internal or external MIDI-controlled sound renderer (sound source, sound engine, etc.).

Examples of suitable SOFTWARE sound rendering apps include Fluidsynth, SFZ, GigaSampler (obsolete), Grand Orgue, Hauptwerk, and many others.

Examples of suitable HARDWARE (external) sound renderers include any number of MIDI controlled synthesizers made by Roland/Edirol, Korg, and many others.

Fluidsynth is a suitable totally software based sound renderer that is presently directly loadable by jOrgan.  Each instance of a Fluidsynth Sound Source element configured within your jOrgan disposition can only provide a single stereo (2-channel) output stream.  But you can configure any number of Fluidsynth Sound Source elements within your jOrgan disposition, limited only by the number of actual AUDIO devices available/configured on your computer.

jOrgan is able to use more than 16 MIDI channels with each instance of an internal Fluidsynth Sound Source element.   It passes jOrgan's MIDI message data directly to the Fluidsynth app internally, and does NOT require the presence of any actual (real or virtual) MIDI devices defined/configured on your computer.

But jOrgan can only use 16 MIDI channels with each external (real or virtual) MIDI device configured on your computer.

CLW

-------------------------------------------------

On 6/27/2017 10:11 PM, John Reimer wrote:
Hello to all

Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I have an 8 channel
audio system I am using with hauptwerk basic at this time but it only has 2
channel audio in the basic edition so I am not getting the full advantage
of my system. I used jorgan a few years ago but had a much smaller system
at the time. I don't want to spend money to get the advanced addition of
HW in that I think I like jorgan and grandorgue better and no cost. I do
however want to enjoy the advantage of my audio.

My question is does jorgan
have multi channel?

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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

lwalls
William,

Unfortunately, there is no simple "turn-key" solution for the minimally computer literate
organist who wants a superb organ sound for minimal cost.

The truly "no-computer-brain" solution is the horrendously expensive purchase of a
just-plug-it-in commercial organ from a real organ manufacturer (or less expensively,
second hand).

If you are willing to wade in and acquire a moderate level of computer and MIDI
understanding, the Artisan organ-in-a-box solution that you have researched should give
you a reasonably true organ sound.   But the audio setup to do it justice won't be cheap.

If you want a top-of-the-line computer based software solution, Hauptwerk is the way to
go.  It is a little expensive -- but not as costly as the Artisan or a commercial organ.
And it will require a limited understanding of computers and MIDI.  The most difficult
aspect of Hauptwerk (or Artisan) is the acquisition and configuration of an audio system
(power amplifiers, speakers, and miscellaneous accessories) that will do justice to the
software generated sound of Hauptwerk, Artisan, Grand Orgue, Fluidsynth, or whatever sound
engine you select.  In fact, the audio hardware may end up being your MOST EXPENSIVE
collection of components.

If you are ready to really get down and dirty with computers and MIDI, jOrgan is an
opportunity -- NOT a solution.  There are many organ hobbyists who have built very nice
virtual organs using jOrgan, Fluidsynth, and soundfont based sample sets.  Some of them
are freely available from some of the members of this forum/list.  But you had better have
a good understanding of MIDI and jOrgan disposition building and maintenance basics in
order to use them without tearing out your hair!

Good luck!
CLW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 6/28/2017 1:43 PM, William Blalock wrote:

> Thank you both for the information and I will most definitely consider your advice as I
> prefer not to spend a lot of money if I can accomplish this with less with a little help.
> As for the sound engine it is built by Artisan Organs in Washington State.  The sound
> engine is built on Linux and has pipe sampling by Wicks Pipe Organ witch Wicks uses for
> there hybrid organs as well as there full digital organs. My understanding is Artisan gets
> these from Wicks.   All you would have with computer, software, interface and sampling in
> one small unit. You buy the unit and select from a list the digital ranks of
> your preference classical or theater, They install and configure everything. You place
> inside the console and connect your midi and audio and ready. You can go to
> artisanorgans.com <http://artisanorgans.com> or artisan or google artisan digital ranks
> and see and here. I only wish I could find this in use on youtube or a forum with someone
> with knowledge of it. The sales rep for North Carolina where I live has one set up about a
> two hour drive from where I live but have not had the time to go see it. I will have to do
> so and talk to some who have before I buy but am very impressed with it thus far. All that
> said being I have a suitable computer relatively fast and a good 8 channel interface it
> would be nice to use what I have and spend no more or perhaps a lot less and be done. The
> Artisan Engine would be between $2500.00 and 3000.00. Todays digital sampling has come a
> long way from early 90's and could put my Organ to the equivalent of a high end organ of
> today with what I have. If I can find the help to do this with what I have and spend
> little or none it was my hope. You can see my Organ on google plus in the vpo section
> William K. Blalock. It shows it connected to a 2 channel MIDI/AUDIO interface by presonas
> but I have an 8 channel when I can connect to 8 channels. Again thank you all for replying
> and any help and advice you can give. Kind regards, Keith
>
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Howard Ashley <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     William B.,
>                 I feel your pain (and frustration). I am in much the same boat. I am a
>     long time organist and have spent the last 25 years working on advancing my organ
>     technique and the administrative duties that go along with being a Director of Music.
>     I do, however, have many years as a Computer Repair Technician, which doesn't
>     necessarily make figuring out a VPO configuration any easier, but it does take out a
>     lot of the intimidation factor! I feel that you are misguided in your belief that
>     going to a hardware Sound Engine will eliminate any need to understand (or need for)
>     MIDI or Computers or Touch Screens, etc. I mean... how is your Sound Engine supposed
>     to communicate with your organ console? MIDI of course, and you'd better be able to at
>     least understand how MIDI assigns channels to organ divisions at a minimum. If I had a
>     3 manual drawknob organ fully MIDI'ed with a very elaborate audio system you had best
>     believe I would be *playing* that beast, daily, instead of mucking around with VPO
>     hardware and software! I don't care how 'bad' it sounds, it really can't sound that
>     bad and be so substantial in its hardware offerings. Bottom line, I suspect that if
>     you can get a hardware Sound Engine running with your organ console, you can also get
>     J'Organ running, the demands on you are very similar in either case. FWIW.
>
>     On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:09 AM, William Blalock <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>         Good morning Lynn
>
>         I wish to thank you for your quick reply to may question. It is quite clear that
>         you clearly see me as a complete idiot lol and I must admit my knowledge of VPO
>         and jorgan is limited thus why I reached out to the jorgan community for help and
>         advice. While my knowledge is very limited I do have the ability to understand.  I
>         currently have an 8 channel MIDI/AUDIO interface connected between my audio system
>         and computer and using Hauptwerk Basic Edition and playing thru 2 channels of my
>         system as according to Hauptwerk I will need there advanced version to utilize all
>         8 channels. I reached out for help in hopes that jorgan may enable me to do so. I
>         am an accomplished organist of 45 years and was blessed to have a father whom was
>         an official church organist at age 14 and played in church every Sunday he lived
>         up to 80 and played pipe organs all over the world. That said my experience as a
>         organist by far exceeds that of my computer and software knowledge.  When I opened
>         your email and saw three short questions WHAT? MIDI? AUDIO? before I was able to
>         read further I knew I had ask a dumb question lol and felt you were unable to
>         understand a complete idiot but continued to read further thinking there must be
>         some answers and a load of information in the very detailed reply. That said it is
>         no question you have quite a bit of expertize in VPO/Computer technology and were
>         able to understand exactly what I was hoping to accomplish. As an experienced
>         organist I often have questions from young students, or experienced pianist new to
>         the organ reaching out for help and advice and the questions they ask, like myself
>         with you, clearly show they need help and like you do all I can to help and share
>         my God given talents. I used jorgan back in 2011 for about a year and really liked
>         it and it appealed to me in that it was no cost and could learn before investing a
>         fortune with the joran forum for help. I found my lack of knowledge didn't fit in
>         with the community and went with hauptwerk. I was so impressed with jorgan and
>         have heard some really great set ups and thought I would reach out again. I think
>         with my limited knowledge with the more advanced VPO's set up I will go with a
>         sound engine. All built in to one unit, no midi/audio interface needed, no
>         external computer and no touch screen monitors. Being I have a 3 manual draw knob
>         organ "fully" midi enabled from the factory with a very elaborate audio system
>         it seems best to not have all the external gadgets of a hobbyist set up. I do
>         however; want to thank you for taking the time and sharing a load of
>         experienced information. Kind regards
>
>         On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:04 AM, Lynn Walls <[hidden email]
>         <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>             Does jOrgan have multi channel WHAT?  multi channel MIDI? or multi channel AUDIO?
>
>             jOrgan itself supports an unlimited number of MIDI output channels.  Your
>             ability to actually utilize any number of MIDI channels is limited only by
>             your computer's complement of suitable MIDI devices.  For each such MIDI
>             device (hard port or virtual port) defined on your computer jOrgan would
>             support 16 MIDI channels.
>
>             jOrgan does NOT support AUDIO channels at all!  jOrgan's ONLY output is one or
>             more MIDI message data streams.  Producing audio using jOrgan requires the
>             presence of an internal or external MIDI-controlled sound renderer (sound
>             source, sound engine, etc.).
>
>             Examples of suitable SOFTWARE sound rendering apps include Fluidsynth, SFZ,
>             GigaSampler (obsolete), Grand Orgue, Hauptwerk, and many others.
>
>             Examples of suitable HARDWARE (external) sound renderers include any number of
>             MIDI controlled synthesizers made by Roland/Edirol, Korg, and many others.
>
>             Fluidsynth is a suitable totally software based sound renderer that is
>             presently directly loadable by jOrgan.  Each instance of a Fluidsynth Sound
>             Source element configured within your jOrgan disposition can only provide a
>             single stereo (2-channel) output stream.  But you can configure any number of
>             Fluidsynth Sound Source elements within your jOrgan disposition, limited only
>             by the number of actual AUDIO devices available/configured on your computer.
>
>             jOrgan is able to use more than 16 MIDI channels with each instance of an
>             internal Fluidsynth Sound Source element.   It passes jOrgan's MIDI message
>             data directly to the Fluidsynth app internally, and does NOT require the
>             presence of any actual (real or virtual) MIDI devices defined/configured on
>             your computer.
>
>             But jOrgan can only use 16 MIDI channels with each external (real or virtual)
>             MIDI device configured on your computer.
>
>             CLW
>
>             -------------------------------------------------
>
>             On 6/27/2017 10:11 PM, John Reimer wrote:
>
>                 Hello to all
>
>                 Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I have an 8 channel
>                 audio system I am using with hauptwerk basic at this time but it only has 2
>                 channel audio in the basic edition so I am not getting the full advantage
>                 of my system. I used jorgan a few years ago but had a much smaller system
>                 at the time. I don't want to spend money to get the advanced addition of
>                 HW in that I think I like jorgan and grandorgue better and no cost. I do
>                 however want to enjoy the advantage of my audio.
>
>                 My question is does jorgan
>                 have multi channel?
>
>
>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>             Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>             engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>             _______________________________________________
>             jOrgan-user mailing list
>             [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>             https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>             <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user>
>
>
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>         engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>         [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>         https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>         <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user>
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>     engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>     jOrgan-user mailing list
>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>     <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>
>
>
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>

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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

Leisesturm
William,
           I have pretty extensive knowledge of the Artisan Sound Engine, and also with the individual you alluded to, who now resides in North Carolina. The  main advantage of the Artisan, or any other Sound Engine, is the ability to obtain 32' stops or extensions, for a reasonable price. IMO the 8' and 4' stops and upperwork offered by Artisan are NOT superior to those found in a modern or late model mainline digital. However, if one truly wanted to expand the horizons of a digital such as yours, I would find a way to foldback the audio output of the Sound Engine soundcard to appropriate input points of the digital organs internal amplifiers and from there to its speaker complement. It would be, as Lynn says, pretty expensive to kit up an 8 channel audio system that would do a sound engine justice! I understand that it is a tempting prospect, but technology really does not offer a free lunch. If you want the audio realism of a 21st Century digital or pipe organ you have to spend 10's of thousands of dollars buying that digital, or buying the equivalent in VPO hardware, software and audio hardware. I suspect it is ambience that you are missing from your present digital. The Artisan Sound engine has no provisions for ambience at all! It will sound WORSE than your digital because I suspect (hope) your digital has at least some rudimentary kind of reverberation hardware built in. If it were me I would try to find a recent decent quality convolution reverb and insert it into the audio chain of your digital console and call it very, very good. I know this is the J'Organ forum and I am advising you to simply avoid VPO software but I'll say it again: if the digital that I bought from the church in AZ had worked properly and not died completely soon after I bought it,, I would have used it as it was, late 80's sound  notwithstanding. In the brief time I heard it, I was impressed with the performance of the onboard reverberation. It also had a 32' stop as OEM. I could have worked with that configuration for many years. When I needed more I could satisfy that by finding a real organ to play. You can get a new digital reverb from Lexicon for around $200 for stereo and $300 for four channel. Even (especially) if you go with the Artisan option you will need the reverberation unless such is present as part of your consoles audio. And is of good enough performance. I tend to doubt that since most of these big digitals were expected to be used in churches with fairly decent acoustics as part of their architecture.

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:14 AM, Lynn Walls <[hidden email]> wrote:
William,

Unfortunately, there is no simple "turn-key" solution for the minimally computer literate organist who wants a superb organ sound for minimal cost.

The truly "no-computer-brain" solution is the horrendously expensive purchase of a just-plug-it-in commercial organ from a real organ manufacturer (or less expensively, second hand).

If you are willing to wade in and acquire a moderate level of computer and MIDI understanding, the Artisan organ-in-a-box solution that you have researched should give you a reasonably true organ sound.   But the audio setup to do it justice won't be cheap.

If you want a top-of-the-line computer based software solution, Hauptwerk is the way to go.  It is a little expensive -- but not as costly as the Artisan or a commercial organ. And it will require a limited understanding of computers and MIDI.  The most difficult aspect of Hauptwerk (or Artisan) is the acquisition and configuration of an audio system (power amplifiers, speakers, and miscellaneous accessories) that will do justice to the software generated sound of Hauptwerk, Artisan, Grand Orgue, Fluidsynth, or whatever sound engine you select.  In fact, the audio hardware may end up being your MOST EXPENSIVE collection of components.

If you are ready to really get down and dirty with computers and MIDI, jOrgan is an opportunity -- NOT a solution.  There are many organ hobbyists who have built very nice virtual organs using jOrgan, Fluidsynth, and soundfont based sample sets.  Some of them are freely available from some of the members of this forum/list.  But you had better have a good understanding of MIDI and jOrgan disposition building and maintenance basics in order to use them without tearing out your hair!

Good luck!
CLW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 6/28/2017 1:43 PM, William Blalock wrote:
Thank you both for the information and I will most definitely consider your advice as I prefer not to spend a lot of money if I can accomplish this with less with a little help. As for the sound engine it is built by Artisan Organs in Washington State.  The sound engine is built on Linux and has pipe sampling by Wicks Pipe Organ witch Wicks uses for there hybrid organs as well as there full digital organs. My understanding is Artisan gets these from Wicks.   All you would have with computer, software, interface and sampling in one small unit. You buy the unit and select from a list the digital ranks of your preference classical or theater, They install and configure everything. You place inside the console and connect your midi and audio and ready. You can go to artisanorgans.com <http://artisanorgans.com> or artisan or google artisan digital ranks and see and here. I only wish I could find this in use on youtube or a forum with someone with knowledge of it. The sales rep for North Carolina where I live has one set up about a two hour drive from where I live but have not had the time to go see it. I will have to do so and talk to some who have before I buy but am very impressed with it thus far. All that said being I have a suitable computer relatively fast and a good 8 channel interface it would be nice to use what I have and spend no more or perhaps a lot less and be done. The Artisan Engine would be between $2500.00 and 3000.00. Todays digital sampling has come a long way from early 90's and could put my Organ to the equivalent of a high end organ of today with what I have. If I can find the help to do this with what I have and spend little or none it was my hope. You can see my Organ on google plus in the vpo section William K. Blalock. It shows it connected to a 2 channel MIDI/AUDIO interface by presonas but I have an 8 channel when I can connect to 8 channels. Again thank you all for replying and any help and advice you can give. Kind regards, Keith

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Howard Ashley <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

    William B.,
                I feel your pain (and frustration). I am in much the same boat. I am a
    long time organist and have spent the last 25 years working on advancing my organ
    technique and the administrative duties that go along with being a Director of Music.
    I do, however, have many years as a Computer Repair Technician, which doesn't
    necessarily make figuring out a VPO configuration any easier, but it does take out a
    lot of the intimidation factor! I feel that you are misguided in your belief that
    going to a hardware Sound Engine will eliminate any need to understand (or need for)     MIDI or Computers or Touch Screens, etc. I mean... how is your Sound Engine supposed
    to communicate with your organ console? MIDI of course, and you'd better be able to at
    least understand how MIDI assigns channels to organ divisions at a minimum. If I had a
    3 manual drawknob organ fully MIDI'ed with a very elaborate audio system you had best
    believe I would be *playing* that beast, daily, instead of mucking around with VPO
    hardware and software! I don't care how 'bad' it sounds, it really can't sound that
    bad and be so substantial in its hardware offerings. Bottom line, I suspect that if
    you can get a hardware Sound Engine running with your organ console, you can also get
    J'Organ running, the demands on you are very similar in either case. FWIW.

    On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:09 AM, William Blalock <[hidden email]
    <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

        Good morning Lynn

        I wish to thank you for your quick reply to may question. It is quite clear that
        you clearly see me as a complete idiot lol and I must admit my knowledge of VPO
        and jorgan is limited thus why I reached out to the jorgan community for help and
        advice. While my knowledge is very limited I do have the ability to understand.  I
        currently have an 8 channel MIDI/AUDIO interface connected between my audio system
        and computer and using Hauptwerk Basic Edition and playing thru 2 channels of my
        system as according to Hauptwerk I will need there advanced version to utilize all
        8 channels. I reached out for help in hopes that jorgan may enable me to do so. I
        am an accomplished organist of 45 years and was blessed to have a father whom was
        an official church organist at age 14 and played in church every Sunday he lived
        up to 80 and played pipe organs all over the world. That said my experience as a
        organist by far exceeds that of my computer and software knowledge.  When I opened
        your email and saw three short questions WHAT? MIDI? AUDIO? before I was able to
        read further I knew I had ask a dumb question lol and felt you were unable to
        understand a complete idiot but continued to read further thinking there must be
        some answers and a load of information in the very detailed reply. That said it is
        no question you have quite a bit of expertize in VPO/Computer technology and were
        able to understand exactly what I was hoping to accomplish. As an experienced
        organist I often have questions from young students, or experienced pianist new to
        the organ reaching out for help and advice and the questions they ask, like myself
        with you, clearly show they need help and like you do all I can to help and share
        my God given talents. I used jorgan back in 2011 for about a year and really liked
        it and it appealed to me in that it was no cost and could learn before investing a
        fortune with the joran forum for help. I found my lack of knowledge didn't fit in
        with the community and went with hauptwerk. I was so impressed with jorgan and
        have heard some really great set ups and thought I would reach out again. I think
        with my limited knowledge with the more advanced VPO's set up I will go with a
        sound engine. All built in to one unit, no midi/audio interface needed, no
        external computer and no touch screen monitors. Being I have a 3 manual draw knob
        organ "fully" midi enabled from the factory with a very elaborate audio system
        it seems best to not have all the external gadgets of a hobbyist set up. I do
        however; want to thank you for taking the time and sharing a load of
        experienced information. Kind regards

        On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:04 AM, Lynn Walls <[hidden email]
        <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

            Does jOrgan have multi channel WHAT?  multi channel MIDI? or multi channel AUDIO?

            jOrgan itself supports an unlimited number of MIDI output channels.  Your
            ability to actually utilize any number of MIDI channels is limited only by
            your computer's complement of suitable MIDI devices.  For each such MIDI
            device (hard port or virtual port) defined on your computer jOrgan would
            support 16 MIDI channels.

            jOrgan does NOT support AUDIO channels at all!  jOrgan's ONLY output is one or
            more MIDI message data streams.  Producing audio using jOrgan requires the
            presence of an internal or external MIDI-controlled sound renderer (sound
            source, sound engine, etc.).

            Examples of suitable SOFTWARE sound rendering apps include Fluidsynth, SFZ,
            GigaSampler (obsolete), Grand Orgue, Hauptwerk, and many others.

            Examples of suitable HARDWARE (external) sound renderers include any number of
            MIDI controlled synthesizers made by Roland/Edirol, Korg, and many others.

            Fluidsynth is a suitable totally software based sound renderer that is
            presently directly loadable by jOrgan.  Each instance of a Fluidsynth Sound
            Source element configured within your jOrgan disposition can only provide a
            single stereo (2-channel) output stream.  But you can configure any number of
            Fluidsynth Sound Source elements within your jOrgan disposition, limited only
            by the number of actual AUDIO devices available/configured on your computer.

            jOrgan is able to use more than 16 MIDI channels with each instance of an
            internal Fluidsynth Sound Source element.   It passes jOrgan's MIDI message
            data directly to the Fluidsynth app internally, and does NOT require the
            presence of any actual (real or virtual) MIDI devices defined/configured on
            your computer.

            But jOrgan can only use 16 MIDI channels with each external (real or virtual)
            MIDI device configured on your computer.

            CLW

            -------------------------------------------------

            On 6/27/2017 10:11 PM, John Reimer wrote:

                Hello to all

                Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I have an 8 channel
                audio system I am using with hauptwerk basic at this time but it only has 2
                channel audio in the basic edition so I am not getting the full advantage
                of my system. I used jorgan a few years ago but had a much smaller system
                at the time. I don't want to spend money to get the advanced addition of
                HW in that I think I like jorgan and grandorgue better and no cost. I do
                however want to enjoy the advantage of my audio.

                My question is does jorgan
                have multi channel?


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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

keith56
My organ has no internal amp/speakers. I have 2 X 650 watt amps and  8 X 3 way htc15 speakers. This organ came from factory with this external audio.  the configuration was when I had all connected to my organ without computer/hauptwerk was 1 amp and 4 speaker left and 1 amp 4 speakers on right. This is a digital organ but not digital pipe sampling as in VPO and does not have reverb. I feel that the reason it has no reverb as an organ of this size was built for a large church that would not need reverb having the acoustics to accommodate it. I have considered and feel that adding reverb to my original set up would sound much better but I know It would not fully satisfy my desire for a true pipe sound. I feel this organ having full midi and this audio system I am most of the way to having a great sounding organ if I can find the best way to go. I don't want to spend more than necessary to accomplish this but don't mind spending what it takes to do it right. Bottom line is I am looking the most cost effective way to take this organ to the top. I will say I am not sold on the artisan as I mention earlier in our conversation I have not found anyone with one or any reviews. my goal is to get help with the best way to go about this and should it be Hauptwerk or jorgan I most definitely will need some help and certainly be a lot learn on my part to witch will depend very much on the generosity of others. I did find a hauptwerk consultant willing to do this connecting remotely to my computer for what I would consider to be a very reasonable price and  have not ruled this option out either. Again I do appreciate all of you for taking the time to share your knowledge and advice and I am sure it will put me in the right direction  

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:31 PM, Howard Ashley <[hidden email]> wrote:
William,
           I have pretty extensive knowledge of the Artisan Sound Engine, and also with the individual you alluded to, who now resides in North Carolina. The  main advantage of the Artisan, or any other Sound Engine, is the ability to obtain 32' stops or extensions, for a reasonable price. IMO the 8' and 4' stops and upperwork offered by Artisan are NOT superior to those found in a modern or late model mainline digital. However, if one truly wanted to expand the horizons of a digital such as yours, I would find a way to foldback the audio output of the Sound Engine soundcard to appropriate input points of the digital organs internal amplifiers and from there to its speaker complement. It would be, as Lynn says, pretty expensive to kit up an 8 channel audio system that would do a sound engine justice! I understand that it is a tempting prospect, but technology really does not offer a free lunch. If you want the audio realism of a 21st Century digital or pipe organ you have to spend 10's of thousands of dollars buying that digital, or buying the equivalent in VPO hardware, software and audio hardware. I suspect it is ambience that you are missing from your present digital. The Artisan Sound engine has no provisions for ambience at all! It will sound WORSE than your digital because I suspect (hope) your digital has at least some rudimentary kind of reverberation hardware built in. If it were me I would try to find a recent decent quality convolution reverb and insert it into the audio chain of your digital console and call it very, very good. I know this is the J'Organ forum and I am advising you to simply avoid VPO software but I'll say it again: if the digital that I bought from the church in AZ had worked properly and not died completely soon after I bought it,, I would have used it as it was, late 80's sound  notwithstanding. In the brief time I heard it, I was impressed with the performance of the onboard reverberation. It also had a 32' stop as OEM. I could have worked with that configuration for many years. When I needed more I could satisfy that by finding a real organ to play. You can get a new digital reverb from Lexicon for around $200 for stereo and $300 for four channel. Even (especially) if you go with the Artisan option you will need the reverberation unless such is present as part of your consoles audio. And is of good enough performance. I tend to doubt that since most of these big digitals were expected to be used in churches with fairly decent acoustics as part of their architecture.

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:14 AM, Lynn Walls <[hidden email]> wrote:
William,

Unfortunately, there is no simple "turn-key" solution for the minimally computer literate organist who wants a superb organ sound for minimal cost.

The truly "no-computer-brain" solution is the horrendously expensive purchase of a just-plug-it-in commercial organ from a real organ manufacturer (or less expensively, second hand).

If you are willing to wade in and acquire a moderate level of computer and MIDI understanding, the Artisan organ-in-a-box solution that you have researched should give you a reasonably true organ sound.   But the audio setup to do it justice won't be cheap.

If you want a top-of-the-line computer based software solution, Hauptwerk is the way to go.  It is a little expensive -- but not as costly as the Artisan or a commercial organ. And it will require a limited understanding of computers and MIDI.  The most difficult aspect of Hauptwerk (or Artisan) is the acquisition and configuration of an audio system (power amplifiers, speakers, and miscellaneous accessories) that will do justice to the software generated sound of Hauptwerk, Artisan, Grand Orgue, Fluidsynth, or whatever sound engine you select.  In fact, the audio hardware may end up being your MOST EXPENSIVE collection of components.

If you are ready to really get down and dirty with computers and MIDI, jOrgan is an opportunity -- NOT a solution.  There are many organ hobbyists who have built very nice virtual organs using jOrgan, Fluidsynth, and soundfont based sample sets.  Some of them are freely available from some of the members of this forum/list.  But you had better have a good understanding of MIDI and jOrgan disposition building and maintenance basics in order to use them without tearing out your hair!

Good luck!
CLW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 6/28/2017 1:43 PM, William Blalock wrote:
Thank you both for the information and I will most definitely consider your advice as I prefer not to spend a lot of money if I can accomplish this with less with a little help. As for the sound engine it is built by Artisan Organs in Washington State.  The sound engine is built on Linux and has pipe sampling by Wicks Pipe Organ witch Wicks uses for there hybrid organs as well as there full digital organs. My understanding is Artisan gets these from Wicks.   All you would have with computer, software, interface and sampling in one small unit. You buy the unit and select from a list the digital ranks of your preference classical or theater, They install and configure everything. You place inside the console and connect your midi and audio and ready. You can go to artisanorgans.com <http://artisanorgans.com> or artisan or google artisan digital ranks and see and here. I only wish I could find this in use on youtube or a forum with someone with knowledge of it. The sales rep for North Carolina where I live has one set up about a two hour drive from where I live but have not had the time to go see it. I will have to do so and talk to some who have before I buy but am very impressed with it thus far. All that said being I have a suitable computer relatively fast and a good 8 channel interface it would be nice to use what I have and spend no more or perhaps a lot less and be done. The Artisan Engine would be between $2500.00 and 3000.00. Todays digital sampling has come a long way from early 90's and could put my Organ to the equivalent of a high end organ of today with what I have. If I can find the help to do this with what I have and spend little or none it was my hope. You can see my Organ on google plus in the vpo section William K. Blalock. It shows it connected to a 2 channel MIDI/AUDIO interface by presonas but I have an 8 channel when I can connect to 8 channels. Again thank you all for replying and any help and advice you can give. Kind regards, Keith

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Howard Ashley <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

    William B.,
                I feel your pain (and frustration). I am in much the same boat. I am a
    long time organist and have spent the last 25 years working on advancing my organ
    technique and the administrative duties that go along with being a Director of Music.
    I do, however, have many years as a Computer Repair Technician, which doesn't
    necessarily make figuring out a VPO configuration any easier, but it does take out a
    lot of the intimidation factor! I feel that you are misguided in your belief that
    going to a hardware Sound Engine will eliminate any need to understand (or need for)     MIDI or Computers or Touch Screens, etc. I mean... how is your Sound Engine supposed
    to communicate with your organ console? MIDI of course, and you'd better be able to at
    least understand how MIDI assigns channels to organ divisions at a minimum. If I had a
    3 manual drawknob organ fully MIDI'ed with a very elaborate audio system you had best
    believe I would be *playing* that beast, daily, instead of mucking around with VPO
    hardware and software! I don't care how 'bad' it sounds, it really can't sound that
    bad and be so substantial in its hardware offerings. Bottom line, I suspect that if
    you can get a hardware Sound Engine running with your organ console, you can also get
    J'Organ running, the demands on you are very similar in either case. FWIW.

    On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:09 AM, William Blalock <[hidden email]
    <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

        Good morning Lynn

        I wish to thank you for your quick reply to may question. It is quite clear that
        you clearly see me as a complete idiot lol and I must admit my knowledge of VPO
        and jorgan is limited thus why I reached out to the jorgan community for help and
        advice. While my knowledge is very limited I do have the ability to understand.  I
        currently have an 8 channel MIDI/AUDIO interface connected between my audio system
        and computer and using Hauptwerk Basic Edition and playing thru 2 channels of my
        system as according to Hauptwerk I will need there advanced version to utilize all
        8 channels. I reached out for help in hopes that jorgan may enable me to do so. I
        am an accomplished organist of 45 years and was blessed to have a father whom was
        an official church organist at age 14 and played in church every Sunday he lived
        up to 80 and played pipe organs all over the world. That said my experience as a
        organist by far exceeds that of my computer and software knowledge.  When I opened
        your email and saw three short questions WHAT? MIDI? AUDIO? before I was able to
        read further I knew I had ask a dumb question lol and felt you were unable to
        understand a complete idiot but continued to read further thinking there must be
        some answers and a load of information in the very detailed reply. That said it is
        no question you have quite a bit of expertize in VPO/Computer technology and were
        able to understand exactly what I was hoping to accomplish. As an experienced
        organist I often have questions from young students, or experienced pianist new to
        the organ reaching out for help and advice and the questions they ask, like myself
        with you, clearly show they need help and like you do all I can to help and share
        my God given talents. I used jorgan back in 2011 for about a year and really liked
        it and it appealed to me in that it was no cost and could learn before investing a
        fortune with the joran forum for help. I found my lack of knowledge didn't fit in
        with the community and went with hauptwerk. I was so impressed with jorgan and
        have heard some really great set ups and thought I would reach out again. I think
        with my limited knowledge with the more advanced VPO's set up I will go with a
        sound engine. All built in to one unit, no midi/audio interface needed, no
        external computer and no touch screen monitors. Being I have a 3 manual draw knob
        organ "fully" midi enabled from the factory with a very elaborate audio system
        it seems best to not have all the external gadgets of a hobbyist set up. I do
        however; want to thank you for taking the time and sharing a load of
        experienced information. Kind regards

        On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:04 AM, Lynn Walls <[hidden email]
        <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

            Does jOrgan have multi channel WHAT?  multi channel MIDI? or multi channel AUDIO?

            jOrgan itself supports an unlimited number of MIDI output channels.  Your
            ability to actually utilize any number of MIDI channels is limited only by
            your computer's complement of suitable MIDI devices.  For each such MIDI
            device (hard port or virtual port) defined on your computer jOrgan would
            support 16 MIDI channels.

            jOrgan does NOT support AUDIO channels at all!  jOrgan's ONLY output is one or
            more MIDI message data streams.  Producing audio using jOrgan requires the
            presence of an internal or external MIDI-controlled sound renderer (sound
            source, sound engine, etc.).

            Examples of suitable SOFTWARE sound rendering apps include Fluidsynth, SFZ,
            GigaSampler (obsolete), Grand Orgue, Hauptwerk, and many others.

            Examples of suitable HARDWARE (external) sound renderers include any number of
            MIDI controlled synthesizers made by Roland/Edirol, Korg, and many others.

            Fluidsynth is a suitable totally software based sound renderer that is
            presently directly loadable by jOrgan.  Each instance of a Fluidsynth Sound
            Source element configured within your jOrgan disposition can only provide a
            single stereo (2-channel) output stream.  But you can configure any number of
            Fluidsynth Sound Source elements within your jOrgan disposition, limited only
            by the number of actual AUDIO devices available/configured on your computer.

            jOrgan is able to use more than 16 MIDI channels with each instance of an
            internal Fluidsynth Sound Source element.   It passes jOrgan's MIDI message
            data directly to the Fluidsynth app internally, and does NOT require the
            presence of any actual (real or virtual) MIDI devices defined/configured on
            your computer.

            But jOrgan can only use 16 MIDI channels with each external (real or virtual)
            MIDI device configured on your computer.

            CLW

            -------------------------------------------------

            On 6/27/2017 10:11 PM, John Reimer wrote:

                Hello to all

                Hope someone can help me with jorgan audio questions. I have an 8 channel
                audio system I am using with hauptwerk basic at this time but it only has 2
                channel audio in the basic edition so I am not getting the full advantage
                of my system. I used jorgan a few years ago but had a much smaller system
                at the time. I don't want to spend money to get the advanced addition of
                HW in that I think I like jorgan and grandorgue better and no cost. I do
                however want to enjoy the advantage of my audio.

                My question is does jorgan
                have multi channel?


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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

John Reimer
Administrator
In reply to this post by BrianS
BrianS wrote
You can have multi channel audio with jOrgan, by using multiple soundfonts, and PortAudio extensions and Jack Audio Connection Kit for Windows (or Linux?)

Graham Goode on this forum, is my go to person for this type of setup.  I think he has a tutorial on exactly this matter, but I don't know where to find it.
BrianS,

Graham's tutorial is listed on the Tutorials page of the jOrgan Wiki.
Here is the link to the Wiki itself:
http://jorgan-home.de/mediawiki_en/index.php?title=Home

John Reimer
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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

John Reimer
Administrator
In reply to this post by Aaron Laws
Aaron Laws wrote
I think this isn't perfectly correct either. To divide up stops into more
than two channels, you can also duplicate fluidsynth elements.
Aaron,

As far as I am aware, what I said was correct, but not complete. As well as creating extra soundfonts (not at all difficult when using an editor if you are merely extracting and re-arranging existing material), you HAVE to create in the jOrgan disposition extra Fluidsynth elements into which those extra soundfonts are loaded. Furthermore, you need to set jOrgan up so that the audio outputs from the Fluidsynth elements are passed on to the appropriate soundcard inputs, if you want to use separate audio channels (which is the whole purpose of the exercise, in the example Rick has given in his post). For this to happen, jOrgan has to have the WASAPI Fluidsynth backend installed. (Refer to Graham Goode's tutorial in the jOrgan Wiki Tutorials page.)

John Reimer
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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

jOrgan - User mailing list
In reply to this post by John Reimer
I comiserate.
IF and WHEN I can get my dual Delta 1010LTs working makes a difference if I stay here. I keep trying to dfownload Win 7 32 bit drivers fir the computer I got specifically to create this organ, but no deal at all!

Several have told me of the downoaldable websites, but theydo not work for me.

If anybody has driver software I'd love a copy.


On The Other Hand
Have you seen this?
Although it is for Paramount multi-channel HW, some of it may pertain to your need.

pk


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8 audio output Paramount Guide.pdf (390K) Download Attachment
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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

jOrgan - User mailing list

Hi Paul K…

                …we have spoken before.  I am a certified tech with 25 years experience in IT, broadcast engineer, musician and organist.

 

Please feel free to send me a private email or forum note mentioning what the nature of your difficulties are.  I am sure we can figure out something that will work for you.

 

I run jOrgan and Hauptwerk from an Allen 705 converted to midi.  Sound out is x-fi pcie.

Kindest Regards

Marc-Paul

 


From: Paul Kealy via jOrgan-user [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 8:42 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Paul Kealy
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

 

I comiserate.

IF and WHEN I can get my dual Delta 1010LTs working makes a difference if I stay here. I keep trying to dfownload Win 7 32 bit drivers fir the computer I got specifically to create this organ, but no deal at all!

 

Several have told me of the downoaldable websites, but theydo not work for me.

 

If anybody has driver software I'd love a copy.

 

 

On The Other Hand

Have you seen this?

Although it is for Paramount multi-channel HW, some of it may pertain to your need.

 

pk

 


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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

Aaron Laws
In reply to this post by keith56
On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 4:34 PM, William Blalock <[hidden email]> wrote:
My organ has no internal amp/speakers. I have 2 X 650 watt amps and  8 X 3 way htc15 speakers. This organ came from factory with this external audio.  the configuration was when I had all connected to my organ without computer/hauptwerk was 1 amp and 4 speaker left and 1 amp 4 speakers on right. This is a digital organ but not digital pipe sampling as in VPO and does not have reverb. I feel that the reason it has no reverb as an organ of this size was built for a large church that would not need reverb having the acoustics to accommodate it. I have considered and feel that adding reverb to my original set up would sound much better but I know It would not fully satisfy my desire for a true pipe sound. I feel this organ having full midi and this audio system I am most of the way to having a great sounding organ if I can find the best way to go. I don't want to spend more than necessary to accomplish this but don't mind spending what it takes to do it right. Bottom line is I am looking the most cost effective way to take this organ to the top. I will say I am not sold on the artisan as I mention earlier in our conversation I have not found anyone with one or any reviews. my goal is to get help with the best way to go about this and should it be Hauptwerk or jorgan I most definitely will need some help and certainly be a lot learn on my part to witch will depend very much on the generosity of others. I did find a hauptwerk consultant willing to do this connecting remotely to my computer for what I would consider to be a very reasonable price and  have not ruled this option out either. Again I do appreciate all of you for taking the time to share your knowledge and advice and I am sure it will put me in the right direction  

William,

It sounds like you will love what can be achieved with jOrgan. I take it that your computer can provide eight analog channels of output, and you can handle amplifying those signals and getting them to a loudspeakers? If so, next you need to decide what sound you want to come out of those eight channels. Pick a disposition you like and decide how you want to slice it up. Perhaps great flutes, strings, and principals on one channel; great reeds on another; swell flutes, strings, and principles on another; etc.? (But you and others can surely come up with a better scheme.) Then, as Mr. Reimer mentioned, you will nearly certainly be editing sound fonts, so get a sound font editor that doesn't cost money (and perhaps one that is also free software ;-) ) such as viena, vienna, polyphone, swami, etc., and begin working to divide up the disposition to your liking. As you have questions, feel free to post to this list (under specific subject headings if you please).

One nice thing about this approach is that you can combine dispositions. Though, it may be extra work to make sure the ranks speak coherently (matching volume, etc.).

In Christ,
Aaron Laws

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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

keith56
Thank you Aaron and thanks to all who have responded to my plead for help. Anything outside of a basic set up/configuration of VPO to me is quite a challenge. All of you have shared with me the many options I have. Howard mentioned after learning more about my organ and the audio system suggested I consider seeking options to bring out the best of it without VPO by adding reverb. I strongly felt his advice was well worth looking in to. As I mentioned earlier my organ was in a fairly large church with cathedral ceilings, no carpet and speakers were 30 feet or so high likely to have had great acoustics without the need of reverb. I was not able to hear the organ while it was in the church but was told how the organ was set up and sure it would have sounded much better. His suggesting I consider this I looked in my technical manual and it appears I can have reverb without the need of  an added device with the use of a jumper cable. I have a phone number of the technician that installed and serviced the organ whom I also purchased the technical manual from about 8 months ago. I plan to contact him in a few days when he returns from out of town trip to inquire how I make this connection. While the organ sounds very nice on its own it doesn't come very close to what adding VPO does but surely reverb will most definitely bring it up a notch or two and well worth the try. While I am currently using 8 channels and 8 speakers my system is expandable to 16 channel thus I can purchase additional speakers if I choose and consider mixing my original internal voicing and adding VPO in order to expand and depending on how good the added reverb effects my organ may even be able to get by with a very basic VPO that I can grow with as I become more educated with more technical aspects of VPO. I have my organ in a chapel in the funeral home where I work that seats about 200 people so it is a fairly large room in comparison to having it at home but it has low ceilings and carpet but a better option to have it considering it size. With my current occupation I am not able to have the time to serve as a church organist or time to play others in the area for enjoyment thus is why I want to do as much with my own as I can.  Thanks to all of you. Keith
           

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Aaron Laws <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 4:34 PM, William Blalock <[hidden email]> wrote:
My organ has no internal amp/speakers. I have 2 X 650 watt amps and  8 X 3 way htc15 speakers. This organ came from factory with this external audio.  the configuration was when I had all connected to my organ without computer/hauptwerk was 1 amp and 4 speaker left and 1 amp 4 speakers on right. This is a digital organ but not digital pipe sampling as in VPO and does not have reverb. I feel that the reason it has no reverb as an organ of this size was built for a large church that would not need reverb having the acoustics to accommodate it. I have considered and feel that adding reverb to my original set up would sound much better but I know It would not fully satisfy my desire for a true pipe sound. I feel this organ having full midi and this audio system I am most of the way to having a great sounding organ if I can find the best way to go. I don't want to spend more than necessary to accomplish this but don't mind spending what it takes to do it right. Bottom line is I am looking the most cost effective way to take this organ to the top. I will say I am not sold on the artisan as I mention earlier in our conversation I have not found anyone with one or any reviews. my goal is to get help with the best way to go about this and should it be Hauptwerk or jorgan I most definitely will need some help and certainly be a lot learn on my part to witch will depend very much on the generosity of others. I did find a hauptwerk consultant willing to do this connecting remotely to my computer for what I would consider to be a very reasonable price and  have not ruled this option out either. Again I do appreciate all of you for taking the time to share your knowledge and advice and I am sure it will put me in the right direction  

William,

It sounds like you will love what can be achieved with jOrgan. I take it that your computer can provide eight analog channels of output, and you can handle amplifying those signals and getting them to a loudspeakers? If so, next you need to decide what sound you want to come out of those eight channels. Pick a disposition you like and decide how you want to slice it up. Perhaps great flutes, strings, and principals on one channel; great reeds on another; swell flutes, strings, and principles on another; etc.? (But you and others can surely come up with a better scheme.) Then, as Mr. Reimer mentioned, you will nearly certainly be editing sound fonts, so get a sound font editor that doesn't cost money (and perhaps one that is also free software ;-) ) such as viena, vienna, polyphone, swami, etc., and begin working to divide up the disposition to your liking. As you have questions, feel free to post to this list (under specific subject headings if you please).

One nice thing about this approach is that you can combine dispositions. Though, it may be extra work to make sure the ranks speak coherently (matching volume, etc.).

In Christ,
Aaron Laws

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Re: Multli Audio Channels with jOrgan

keith56
Reply to Lynn Walls,

Good morning Lynn and thank you for the information and advice. Please know that my response is in no way intended to be arrogant or a lack of appreciation of your expert advice and I have admitted I have a  limited knowledge of VPO but didn't exactly admit to be a "computer no brainer" but am beginning to realize that I may very well be one the more I read your response. Fortunately I am able to realize we all crawl before we walk and all have had someone to give a helping hand, teach and mentor us. Please correct me if I am wrong but as I mentioned before I was under the impression that this forum was to share with those  less knowledgeable of jorgan. My guess is if everyone already new it all there would be no need for this forum. I wish to sincerely commend you and all the developers of jorgan for making the jorgan VPO available. I came to this forum making it clear my lack of knowledge and experience knowing it would be a learning curve and would take time. You mentioned there was no quick easy way to what I wanted to do. I don't remember saying I was in any hurry to get things done. You also mentioned that I would need to be prepared to speed a lot on amps and speakers to obtain the level of results I seek. Again, no disrespect or arrogance intended here and this may very well prove my ignorance but it appears you failed to notice the external audio system that came with my organ and may be appropriate but your opinion is most important. My organ is equipped with (2) external amps each 650 watt with 8 channels (each) and  (8) HTC 15 speakers. I am currently utilizing 8 channels. 1 650 watt amp left with 4 HTC 15's and 1 650 watt amp right with 4 HTC 15's These are 3 way speakers. If I choose to expand this gives me 8 more channels. These speakers are plentiful at a very reasonable cost used should I choose to expand to 16 channels witch I most likely will do in the future or before if necessary. In your expert opinion do you feel this audio system will be sufficient for my goal? I do realize I have a lot to learn but I am in no hurry.   Thank you Keith

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 11:09 AM, William Blalock <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thank you Aaron and thanks to all who have responded to my plead for help. Anything outside of a basic set up/configuration of VPO to me is quite a challenge. All of you have shared with me the many options I have. Howard mentioned after learning more about my organ and the audio system suggested I consider seeking options to bring out the best of it without VPO by adding reverb. I strongly felt his advice was well worth looking in to. As I mentioned earlier my organ was in a fairly large church with cathedral ceilings, no carpet and speakers were 30 feet or so high likely to have had great acoustics without the need of reverb. I was not able to hear the organ while it was in the church but was told how the organ was set up and sure it would have sounded much better. His suggesting I consider this I looked in my technical manual and it appears I can have reverb without the need of  an added device with the use of a jumper cable. I have a phone number of the technician that installed and serviced the organ whom I also purchased the technical manual from about 8 months ago. I plan to contact him in a few days when he returns from out of town trip to inquire how I make this connection. While the organ sounds very nice on its own it doesn't come very close to what adding VPO does but surely reverb will most definitely bring it up a notch or two and well worth the try. While I am currently using 8 channels and 8 speakers my system is expandable to 16 channel thus I can purchase additional speakers if I choose and consider mixing my original internal voicing and adding VPO in order to expand and depending on how good the added reverb effects my organ may even be able to get by with a very basic VPO that I can grow with as I become more educated with more technical aspects of VPO. I have my organ in a chapel in the funeral home where I work that seats about 200 people so it is a fairly large room in comparison to having it at home but it has low ceilings and carpet but a better option to have it considering it size. With my current occupation I am not able to have the time to serve as a church organist or time to play others in the area for enjoyment thus is why I want to do as much with my own as I can.  Thanks to all of you. Keith
           

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Aaron Laws <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 4:34 PM, William Blalock <[hidden email]> wrote:
My organ has no internal amp/speakers. I have 2 X 650 watt amps and  8 X 3 way htc15 speakers. This organ came from factory with this external audio.  the configuration was when I had all connected to my organ without computer/hauptwerk was 1 amp and 4 speaker left and 1 amp 4 speakers on right. This is a digital organ but not digital pipe sampling as in VPO and does not have reverb. I feel that the reason it has no reverb as an organ of this size was built for a large church that would not need reverb having the acoustics to accommodate it. I have considered and feel that adding reverb to my original set up would sound much better but I know It would not fully satisfy my desire for a true pipe sound. I feel this organ having full midi and this audio system I am most of the way to having a great sounding organ if I can find the best way to go. I don't want to spend more than necessary to accomplish this but don't mind spending what it takes to do it right. Bottom line is I am looking the most cost effective way to take this organ to the top. I will say I am not sold on the artisan as I mention earlier in our conversation I have not found anyone with one or any reviews. my goal is to get help with the best way to go about this and should it be Hauptwerk or jorgan I most definitely will need some help and certainly be a lot learn on my part to witch will depend very much on the generosity of others. I did find a hauptwerk consultant willing to do this connecting remotely to my computer for what I would consider to be a very reasonable price and  have not ruled this option out either. Again I do appreciate all of you for taking the time to share your knowledge and advice and I am sure it will put me in the right direction  

William,

It sounds like you will love what can be achieved with jOrgan. I take it that your computer can provide eight analog channels of output, and you can handle amplifying those signals and getting them to a loudspeakers? If so, next you need to decide what sound you want to come out of those eight channels. Pick a disposition you like and decide how you want to slice it up. Perhaps great flutes, strings, and principals on one channel; great reeds on another; swell flutes, strings, and principles on another; etc.? (But you and others can surely come up with a better scheme.) Then, as Mr. Reimer mentioned, you will nearly certainly be editing sound fonts, so get a sound font editor that doesn't cost money (and perhaps one that is also free software ;-) ) such as viena, vienna, polyphone, swami, etc., and begin working to divide up the disposition to your liking. As you have questions, feel free to post to this list (under specific subject headings if you please).

One nice thing about this approach is that you can combine dispositions. Though, it may be extra work to make sure the ranks speak coherently (matching volume, etc.).

In Christ,
Aaron Laws

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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