More piston woes

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More piston woes

Graham Harrison

Hi Guys

Bill is not the only one having problems with pistons!

On my Pedal MIDI encoder board (Midi Boutique mpc 40) I have 8 unused contacts. On each of my Great and Swell encoder boards (mpc 64) I have 3 unused contacts = 14 altogether. So I thought I would install a "piston rail" consisting of 14 push-button switches which would activate 14 virtual pistons on my jOrgan console.

This afternoon, I finished the soldering and tried it out. Oh dear! When I select a virtual piston in jOrgan construct mode and bring up the "Waiting for message on MIDI input device", and then press a real piston, nothing happens!

If instead of pressing a real piston, I press a real stop tab, that message IS recorded. In other words, I can activate my virtual pistons with real stop tabs, but not with real pistons.

What's the difference? Basically - none! My stop-tabs MIDI encoder is also an mpc64, and sends note-on/note-off messages the same as my keyboards' MIDI encoders. The only "difference" is that my stop-tabs encoder transmits on channel 5, whereas my keyboard encoders transmit on channels 1 (Great); 2 (Swell); 3 (Pedal); 4 (Choir).

And yes - the new switches are working and so are the encoders! If I extend my Pedal soundfont beyond 32 notes, and my Great soundfont beyond 61 notes, I can play the additional notes using my newly-installed real pistons!

The MIDI messages transmitted by my encoders and recorded by jOrgan's "Waiting for message on MIDI input device" are in the form

148, nn, 103 for note-on and 132, nn, 103 for note off where nn = MIDI note number and 103 = velocity.

I guess there's something pretty basic that I'm missing here and I'd appreciate it if somebody could point me in the right direction!

Graham


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Re: More piston woes

kallman
Hello Graham,
 I think the problem is that the pistons for jOrgan are primarily looking for Program Change 192.nnn.0  Is there anyway of changing the encoder to output for program change instead of note on/off?
Kent
 
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 3:19 PM
Subject: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes

Hi Guys
Bill is not the only one having problems with pistons!
On my Pedal MIDI encoder board (Midi Boutique mpc 40) I have 8 unused contacts. On each of my Great and Swell encoder boards (mpc 64) I have 3 unused contacts = 14 altogether. So I thought I would install a "piston rail" consisting of 14 push-button switches which would activate 14 virtual pistons on my jOrgan console.
This afternoon, I finished the soldering and tried it out. Oh dear! When I select a virtual piston in jOrgan construct mode and bring up the "Waiting for message on MIDI input device", and then press a real piston, nothing happens!
If instead of pressing a real piston, I press a real stop tab, that message IS recorded. In other words, I can activate my virtual pistons with real stop tabs, but not with real pistons.
What's the difference? Basically - none! My stop-tabs MIDI encoder is also an mpc64, and sends note-on/note-off messages the same as my keyboards' MIDI encoders. The only "difference" is that my stop-tabs encoder transmits on channel 5, whereas my keyboard encoders transmit on channels 1 (Great); 2 (Swell); 3 (Pedal); 4 (Choir).
And yes - the new switches are working and so are the encoders! If I extend my Pedal soundfont beyond 32 notes, and my Great soundfont beyond 61 notes, I can play the additional notes using my newly-installed real pistons!
The MIDI messages transmitted by my encoders and recorded by jOrgan's "Waiting for message on MIDI input device" are in the form
148, nn, 103 for note-on and 132, nn, 103 for note off where nn = MIDI note number and 103 = velocity.
I guess there's something pretty basic that I'm missing here and I'd appreciate it if somebody could point me in the right direction!
Graham
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Re: More piston woes

Graham Harrison
Hi Kent
 
Well, for a start, the other 32 or 61 pins on the encoders are connected to the keys on my pedal board or keyboards - so I don't think re-programming the encoder would be a practical solution, even if it were possible to do it.  And in any case it would probably be a job for Jordan Petkov.  Perhaps something could be done by using MIDI-OX - but my set-up is complicated enough without bringing that in!
However the main point is that my virtual pistons quite happily respond to note-on messages transmitted by my stop-tab's encoder...  I still suspect it has something to do with channels.  Or - slightly more subtle, and something I've only just remembered: -
My console "device" is the Audigy soundcard's MIDI port, and my stop tab's encoder communicates with jOrgan through that, whereas my keyboards' devices are the ports of my Midisport 4x4 MIDI-to-USB adapter and the keyboard encoders communicate with jOrgan via that ...
 
Graham
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes

Hello Graham,
 I think the problem is that the pistons for jOrgan are primarily looking for Program Change 192.nnn.0  Is there anyway of changing the encoder to output for program change instead of note on/off?
Kent
 
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 3:19 PM
Subject: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes

Hi Guys
Bill is not the only one having problems with pistons!
On my Pedal MIDI encoder board (Midi Boutique mpc 40) I have 8 unused contacts. On each of my Great and Swell encoder boards (mpc 64) I have 3 unused contacts = 14 altogether. So I thought I would install a "piston rail" consisting of 14 push-button switches which would activate 14 virtual pistons on my jOrgan console.
This afternoon, I finished the soldering and tried it out. Oh dear! When I select a virtual piston in jOrgan construct mode and bring up the "Waiting for message on MIDI input device", and then press a real piston, nothing happens!
If instead of pressing a real piston, I press a real stop tab, that message IS recorded. In other words, I can activate my virtual pistons with real stop tabs, but not with real pistons.
What's the difference? Basically - none! My stop-tabs MIDI encoder is also an mpc64, and sends note-on/note-off messages the same as my keyboards' MIDI encoders. The only "difference" is that my stop-tabs encoder transmits on channel 5, whereas my keyboard encoders transmit on channels 1 (Great); 2 (Swell); 3 (Pedal); 4 (Choir).
And yes - the new switches are working and so are the encoders! If I extend my Pedal soundfont beyond 32 notes, and my Great soundfont beyond 61 notes, I can play the additional notes using my newly-installed real pistons!
The MIDI messages transmitted by my encoders and recorded by jOrgan's "Waiting for message on MIDI input device" are in the form
148, nn, 103 for note-on and 132, nn, 103 for note off where nn = MIDI note number and 103 = velocity.
I guess there's something pretty basic that I'm missing here and I'd appreciate it if somebody could point me in the right direction!
Graham
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Re: More piston woes

kallman
Hello Graham,
 
  You would think that jOrgan would read the note on/off inputs the same no matter which path they come in on.  The only thing I can think of might be the velocity setting of the encoder you're using. Is it possible to set it's velocity to 128 or 0 to see what happens?
Kent
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes

Hi Kent
 
Well, for a start, the other 32 or 61 pins on the encoders are connected to the keys on my pedal board or keyboards - so I don't think re-programming the encoder would be a practical solution, even if it were possible to do it.  And in any case it would probably be a job for Jordan Petkov.  Perhaps something could be done by using MIDI-OX - but my set-up is complicated enough without bringing that in!
However the main point is that my virtual pistons quite happily respond to note-on messages transmitted by my stop-tab's encoder...  I still suspect it has something to do with channels.  Or - slightly more subtle, and something I've only just remembered: -
My console "device" is the Audigy soundcard's MIDI port, and my stop tab's encoder communicates with jOrgan through that, whereas my keyboards' devices are the ports of my Midisport 4x4 MIDI-to-USB adapter and the keyboard encoders communicate with jOrgan via that ...
 
Graham
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes

Hello Graham,
 I think the problem is that the pistons for jOrgan are primarily looking for Program Change 192.nnn.0  Is there anyway of changing the encoder to output for program change instead of note on/off?
Kent
 
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 3:19 PM
Subject: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes

Hi Guys
Bill is not the only one having problems with pistons!
On my Pedal MIDI encoder board (Midi Boutique mpc 40) I have 8 unused contacts. On each of my Great and Swell encoder boards (mpc 64) I have 3 unused contacts = 14 altogether. So I thought I would install a "piston rail" consisting of 14 push-button switches which would activate 14 virtual pistons on my jOrgan console.
This afternoon, I finished the soldering and tried it out. Oh dear! When I select a virtual piston in jOrgan construct mode and bring up the "Waiting for message on MIDI input device", and then press a real piston, nothing happens!
If instead of pressing a real piston, I press a real stop tab, that message IS recorded. In other words, I can activate my virtual pistons with real stop tabs, but not with real pistons.
What's the difference? Basically - none! My stop-tabs MIDI encoder is also an mpc64, and sends note-on/note-off messages the same as my keyboards' MIDI encoders. The only "difference" is that my stop-tabs encoder transmits on channel 5, whereas my keyboard encoders transmit on channels 1 (Great); 2 (Swell); 3 (Pedal); 4 (Choir).
And yes - the new switches are working and so are the encoders! If I extend my Pedal soundfont beyond 32 notes, and my Great soundfont beyond 61 notes, I can play the additional notes using my newly-installed real pistons!
The MIDI messages transmitted by my encoders and recorded by jOrgan's "Waiting for message on MIDI input device" are in the form
148, nn, 103 for note-on and 132, nn, 103 for note off where nn = MIDI note number and 103 = velocity.
I guess there's something pretty basic that I'm missing here and I'd appreciate it if somebody could point me in the right direction!
Graham
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Re: More piston woes

Nice Pipes
In reply to this post by Graham Harrison

Hello Graham

 

Pistons

I have tested out your problem (sort of!) using my pedal board, which runs through Ch 5, and I can receive both Note- On and Note-Off messages.

In order to make my set up work correctly with Note-On, I have to set the Activate Message to be:

(148, Note-Num,+ ).

The + sign means any non-zero value. This overcomes the problem of any variable output velocity from the pedals.

 

I see you are using Note-Off = (128+Ch, Note Num, Velocity) to cancel your Pistons.

An alternative to this would be (148+Ch, Note-Num, 0).

 

Hope this may help!

 

Regards

 

Peter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Re: More piston woes

Graham Harrison
Hi Kent & Peter
 
Thanks for your input - however, the answer came to me while I was having a wash and shave this morning!
Because the Console device property was set to SB Audigy 2ZS MIDI IO, that was the port from which elements on the console expected to receive activation messages.
But the messages to activate the pistons were being sent from three different keyboard devices, namely the USB Midisport 4x4 ports.
Answer - set all Console and keyboard devices to jOrgan Midi Merger and use that!
 
Sven - yet another reason to retain the Midi Merger function!
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes

Hello Graham

 

Pistons

I have tested out your problem (sort of!) using my pedal board, which runs through Ch 5, and I can receive both Note- On and Note-Off messages.

In order to make my set up work correctly with Note-On, I have to set the Activate Message to be:

(148, Note-Num,+ ).

The + sign means any non-zero value. This overcomes the problem of any variable output velocity from the pedals.

 

I see you are using Note-Off = (128+Ch, Note Num, Velocity) to cancel your Pistons.

An alternative to this would be (148+Ch, Note-Num, 0).

 

Hope this may help!

 

Regards

 

Peter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Re: More piston woes

Johnc
In reply to this post by Graham Harrison
Graham,
My system uses midibox encoders and output Great on ch. 1, swell on Ch. 2 and pedal on ch. 4.  Stops are on ch. 6, pistons on channel 7.   All midi encoder data is note on/off.  in jorgan, none of the "activate" entries starts with 192, and none of the vel. entries are other then 127 for "activate" and 0 for "deactivate".  The default entries from the default disposition have 192, nn, 127 , but when I use the auto feature, and set the stop tab or piston button, the numbers that come up are 149, nn, 127 and 149, nn, 0.  My midibox encoder send in only note on/off, and actually since the cards have 128 inputs available, there are 6 spares on card 1 (62-64), (126 - 128).  The first 61 are the great, (65-125) for swell.  I programmed the 6 spare inputs on some other channel for use with the swell shoe (different channel from great or swell).  The second midibox encoder is programmed on ch 4 for pedal first 32 inputs and the rest are for stops (ch. 6 and pistons Ch. 7).  In my setup, jorgan doesn't care where the input come from. when you pick the auto proram button, it accepts any midi input.
Try setting up midi-ox to monitor raw inputs to see what the encoders are sending out.
Regards,
Johnc
Graham Harrison wrote
Hi Guys

Bill is not the only one having problems with pistons!

On my Pedal MIDI encoder board (Midi Boutique mpc 40) I have 8 unused contacts. On each of my Great and Swell encoder boards (mpc 64) I have 3 unused contacts = 14 altogether. So I thought I would install a "piston rail" consisting of 14 push-button switches which would activate 14 virtual pistons on my jOrgan console.

This afternoon, I finished the soldering and tried it out. Oh dear! When I select a virtual piston in jOrgan construct mode and bring up the "Waiting for message on MIDI input device", and then press a real piston, nothing happens!

If instead of pressing a real piston, I press a real stop tab, that message IS recorded. In other words, I can activate my virtual pistons with real stop tabs, but not with real pistons.

What's the difference? Basically - none! My stop-tabs MIDI encoder is also an mpc64, and sends note-on/note-off messages the same as my keyboards' MIDI encoders. The only "difference" is that my stop-tabs encoder transmits on channel 5, whereas my keyboard encoders transmit on channels 1 (Great); 2 (Swell); 3 (Pedal); 4 (Choir).

And yes - the new switches are working and so are the encoders! If I extend my Pedal soundfont beyond 32 notes, and my Great soundfont beyond 61 notes, I can play the additional notes using my newly-installed real pistons!

The MIDI messages transmitted by my encoders and recorded by jOrgan's "Waiting for message on MIDI input device" are in the form

148, nn, 103 for note-on and 132, nn, 103 for note off where nn = MIDI note number and 103 = velocity.

I guess there's something pretty basic that I'm missing here and I'd appreciate it if somebody could point me in the right direction!

Graham

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Re: [Jorgan-user] More piston woes

Bruce Miles-3
Hello All,

I see you are well on the way to solving the problems.

A few  things to bear in mind -
A Note On message (144+Ch) with the third (attack velocity) byte at 00
is equivalent to (and is very often used instead of) a Note Off message
(128+Ch). The second byte is always the Note Number (Mid c = 60)

A Program (Patch) change message (192+Ch) has only two bytes, the second
byte is the program number, the third (non-existent) byte is set to 00
in jOrgan.

The first (status) byte (ie 8 binary bits) contains the identifier bit
(always 1 or 127 in decimal) which identifies it as a status bit plus,
the message type # number plus the Channel number. The other two or
three (Data) bytes contain the (data) identifier bit ( always 0 or 000
in decimal) and the data appropriate for that type of message.

The numbering sequence which looks strange in decimal notation is as it
is because 8 binary bits (all 0's to al 1's) translates into 0 to 255 in
decimal. It looks even stranger in hexadecimal notation which midiox can
explain !!

Bruce



John|C wrote:

> Graham,
> My system uses midibox encoders and output Great on ch. 1, swell on Ch. 2
> and pedal on ch. 4.  Stops are on ch. 6, pistons on channel 7.   All midi
> encoder data is note on/off.  in jorgan, none of the "activate" entries
> starts with 192, and none of the vel. entries are other then 127 for
> "activate" and 0 for "deactivate".  The default entries from the default
> disposition have 192, nn, 127 , but when I use the auto feature, and set the
> stop tab or piston button, the numbers that come up are 149, nn, 127 and
> 149, nn, 0.  My midibox encoder send in only note on/off, and actually since
> the cards have 128 inputs available, there are 6 spares on card 1 (62-64),
> (126 - 128).  The first 61 are the great, (65-125) for swell.  I programmed
> the 6 spare inputs on some other channel for use with the swell shoe
> (different channel from great or swell).  The second midibox encoder is
> programmed on ch 4 for pedal first 32 inputs and the rest are for stops (ch.
> 6 and pistons Ch. 7).  In my setup, jorgan doesn't care where the input come
> from. when you pick the auto proram button, it accepts any midi input.
> Try setting up midi-ox to monitor raw inputs to see what the encoders are
> sending out.
> Regards,
> Johnc
>
> Graham Harrison wrote:
>  
>> Hi Guys
>>
>> Bill is not the only one having problems with pistons!
>>
>> On my Pedal MIDI encoder board (Midi Boutique mpc 40) I have 8 unused
>> contacts. On each of my Great and Swell encoder boards (mpc 64) I have 3
>> unused contacts = 14 altogether. So I thought I would install a "piston
>> rail" consisting of 14 push-button switches which would activate 14
>> virtual pistons on my jOrgan console.
>>
>> This afternoon, I finished the soldering and tried it out. Oh dear! When I
>> select a virtual piston in jOrgan construct mode and bring up the "Waiting
>> for message on MIDI input device", and then press a real piston, nothing
>> happens!
>>
>> If instead of pressing a real piston, I press a real stop tab, that
>> message IS recorded. In other words, I can activate my virtual pistons
>> with real stop tabs, but not with real pistons.
>>
>> What's the difference? Basically - none! My stop-tabs MIDI encoder is also
>> an mpc64, and sends note-on/note-off messages the same as my keyboards'
>> MIDI encoders. The only "difference" is that my stop-tabs encoder
>> transmits on channel 5, whereas my keyboard encoders transmit on channels
>> 1 (Great); 2 (Swell); 3 (Pedal); 4 (Choir).
>>
>> And yes - the new switches are working and so are the encoders! If I
>> extend my Pedal soundfont beyond 32 notes, and my Great soundfont beyond
>> 61 notes, I can play the additional notes using my newly-installed real
>> pistons!
>>
>> The MIDI messages transmitted by my encoders and recorded by jOrgan's
>> "Waiting for message on MIDI input device" are in the form
>>
>> 148, nn, 103 for note-on and 132, nn, 103 for note off where nn = MIDI
>> note number and 103 = velocity.
>>
>> I guess there's something pretty basic that I'm missing here and I'd
>> appreciate it if somebody could point me in the right direction!
>>
>> Graham
>>
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>>
>>    
>
>  


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Re: [Jorgan-user] More piston woes

Graham Harrison
His Guys

I think this mailing list is a bit confusing - it's easy to miss things!  I
already posted a message saying I had solved the problem - which was NOT
connected with the CONTENT of the messages, but rather, the direction they
were coming from!.  The answer was to use jorgan Midi Merger - THEN it
doesn't matter where the message comes from!
Thanks again for all the input.

Graham


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Miles" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] [Jorgan-user] More piston woes


> Hello All,
>
> I see you are well on the way to solving the problems.
>
> A few  things to bear in mind -
> A Note On message (144+Ch) with the third (attack velocity) byte at 00
> is equivalent to (and is very often used instead of) a Note Off message
> (128+Ch). The second byte is always the Note Number (Mid c = 60)
>
> A Program (Patch) change message (192+Ch) has only two bytes, the second
> byte is the program number, the third (non-existent) byte is set to 00
> in jOrgan.
>
> The first (status) byte (ie 8 binary bits) contains the identifier bit
> (always 1 or 127 in decimal) which identifies it as a status bit plus,
> the message type # number plus the Channel number. The other two or
> three (Data) bytes contain the (data) identifier bit ( always 0 or 000
> in decimal) and the data appropriate for that type of message.
>
> The numbering sequence which looks strange in decimal notation is as it
> is because 8 binary bits (all 0's to al 1's) translates into 0 to 255 in
> decimal. It looks even stranger in hexadecimal notation which midiox can
> explain !!
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> John|C wrote:
>> Graham,
>> My system uses midibox encoders and output Great on ch. 1, swell on Ch. 2
>> and pedal on ch. 4.  Stops are on ch. 6, pistons on channel 7.   All midi
>> encoder data is note on/off.  in jorgan, none of the "activate" entries
>> starts with 192, and none of the vel. entries are other then 127 for
>> "activate" and 0 for "deactivate".  The default entries from the default
>> disposition have 192, nn, 127 , but when I use the auto feature, and set
>> the
>> stop tab or piston button, the numbers that come up are 149, nn, 127 and
>> 149, nn, 0.  My midibox encoder send in only note on/off, and actually
>> since
>> the cards have 128 inputs available, there are 6 spares on card 1
>> (62-64),
>> (126 - 128).  The first 61 are the great, (65-125) for swell.  I
>> programmed
>> the 6 spare inputs on some other channel for use with the swell shoe
>> (different channel from great or swell).  The second midibox encoder is
>> programmed on ch 4 for pedal first 32 inputs and the rest are for stops
>> (ch.
>> 6 and pistons Ch. 7).  In my setup, jorgan doesn't care where the input
>> come
>> from. when you pick the auto proram button, it accepts any midi input.
>> Try setting up midi-ox to monitor raw inputs to see what the encoders are
>> sending out.
>> Regards,
>> Johnc
>>
>> Graham Harrison wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Guys
>>>
>>> Bill is not the only one having problems with pistons!
>>>
>>> On my Pedal MIDI encoder board (Midi Boutique mpc 40) I have 8 unused
>>> contacts. On each of my Great and Swell encoder boards (mpc 64) I have 3
>>> unused contacts = 14 altogether. So I thought I would install a "piston
>>> rail" consisting of 14 push-button switches which would activate 14
>>> virtual pistons on my jOrgan console.
>>>
>>> This afternoon, I finished the soldering and tried it out. Oh dear! When
>>> I
>>> select a virtual piston in jOrgan construct mode and bring up the
>>> "Waiting
>>> for message on MIDI input device", and then press a real piston, nothing
>>> happens!
>>>
>>> If instead of pressing a real piston, I press a real stop tab, that
>>> message IS recorded. In other words, I can activate my virtual pistons
>>> with real stop tabs, but not with real pistons.
>>>
>>> What's the difference? Basically - none! My stop-tabs MIDI encoder is
>>> also
>>> an mpc64, and sends note-on/note-off messages the same as my keyboards'
>>> MIDI encoders. The only "difference" is that my stop-tabs encoder
>>> transmits on channel 5, whereas my keyboard encoders transmit on
>>> channels
>>> 1 (Great); 2 (Swell); 3 (Pedal); 4 (Choir).
>>>
>>> And yes - the new switches are working and so are the encoders! If I
>>> extend my Pedal soundfont beyond 32 notes, and my Great soundfont beyond
>>> 61 notes, I can play the additional notes using my newly-installed real
>>> pistons!
>>>
>>> The MIDI messages transmitted by my encoders and recorded by jOrgan's
>>> "Waiting for message on MIDI input device" are in the form
>>>
>>> 148, nn, 103 for note-on and 132, nn, 103 for note off where nn = MIDI
>>> note number and 103 = velocity.
>>>
>>> I guess there's something pretty basic that I'm missing here and I'd
>>> appreciate it if somebody could point me in the right direction!
>>>
>>> Graham
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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> 20:34
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Re: More piston woes

Sven Meier
Administrator
In reply to this post by Graham Harrison
Hi Graham,

glad to hear that you found a solution.

Yes, a console listens on Midi message from a single device only. Thus
all elements on this console will only be able to react to Midi messages
if sent from this single device.
In this setup your right - using the Midi merger is the best option.

But I wouldn't suggest to use the Midi merger all the time. It's an
additional indirection to manage which might not be justifiable for
simpler setups.

Sven

Graham Harrison wrote:

> Hi Kent & Peter
>  
> Thanks for your input - however, the answer came to me while I was
> having a wash and shave this morning!
> Because the Console device property was set to SB Audigy 2ZS MIDI IO,
> that was the port from which elements on the console expected to
> receive activation messages.
> But the messages to activate the pistons were being sent from three
> different keyboard devices, namely the USB Midisport 4x4 ports.
> Answer - set all Console and keyboard devices to jOrgan Midi Merger
> and use that!
>  
> Sven - yet another reason to retain the Midi Merger function!
>  
> Graham
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Peter Nicholson <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     *To:* [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     *Sent:* Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:21 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes
>
>     Hello Graham
>
>      
>
>
>         Pistons
>
>     I have tested out your problem (sort of!) using my pedal board,
>     which runs through Ch 5, and I can receive both Note- On and
>     Note-Off messages.
>
>     In order to make my set up work correctly with Note-On, I have to
>     set the Activate Message to be:
>
>     (148, Note-Num,+ ).
>
>     The + sign means any non-zero value. This overcomes the problem of
>     any variable output velocity from the pedals.
>
>      
>
>     I see you are using Note-Off = (128+Ch, Note Num, Velocity) to
>     cancel your Pistons.
>
>     An alternative to this would be (148+Ch, Note-Num, 0).
>
>      
>
>     Hope this may help!
>
>      
>
>     Regards
>
>      
>
>     Peter
>
>      
>
>      
>
>      
>
>      
>
>      
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>     4/7/2007 22:57
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Re: More piston woes

Graham Harrison
Hi Sven

Whilst I can now activate my virtual pistons using real pistons (switches)
on my console, I cannot seem to do the same with the captor (Set) element.
In Construct mode, I can record the MIDI message when I press the real Set
button, but in Play mode, it does not seem to work.
It's no big deal - I can set my combinations using the mouse and the
on-screen Set button, but it would be nice to be able to do it without the
mouse!
Any comment please?

Graham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sven Meier" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes


> Hi Graham,
>
> glad to hear that you found a solution.
>
> Yes, a console listens on Midi message from a single device only. Thus
> all elements on this console will only be able to react to Midi messages
> if sent from this single device.
> In this setup your right - using the Midi merger is the best option.
>
> But I wouldn't suggest to use the Midi merger all the time. It's an
> additional indirection to manage which might not be justifiable for
> simpler setups.
>
> Sven
>


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Re: More piston woes

RoyR
Hi, Graham,
 
                 Can't help you there I'm afraid, except to confirm your findings on my setup. I'm running Bruce Miles' cinema organ on jOrgan 2.3.6, using a rather clumsy method of encoding home-made pedals. I've built the PCB from a cheap computer keyboard into the pedal board, and connected it to a computer running midiox. Of course, using data mapping, I can send any MIDI message I want.
 
     I tried sending both control and prog. change messages to the SETTER piston, with exactly the results you found, the 'waiting for message' dialogue clears down OK, but the control doesn't respond when you switch back to play mode... Very odd!
 
     Have fun,
 
         Roy.

Graham Harrison <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Sven

Whilst I can now activate my virtual pistons using real pistons (switches)
on my console, I cannot seem to do the same with the captor (Set) element.
In Construct mode, I can record the MIDI message when I press the real Set
button, but in Play mode, it does not seem to work.
It's no big deal - I can set my combinations using the mouse and the
on-screen Set button, but it would be nice to be able to do it without the
mouse!
Any comment please?

Graham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sven Meier"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes


> Hi Graham,
>
> glad to hear that you found a solution.
>
> Yes, a console listens on Midi message from a single device only. Thus
> all elements on this console will only be able to react to Midi messages
> if sent from this single device.
> In this setup your right - using the Midi merger is the best option.
>
> But I wouldn't suggest to use the Midi merger all the time. It's an
> additional indirection to manage which might not be justifiable for
> simpler setups.
>
> Sven
>


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Re: More piston woes

Graham Harrison
Not the only thing that is odd - try this one for size:
 
Having got my real pistons to activate the on-screen virtual pistons, I set up various stop combinations.
Yesterday I did it for the Windows/sfz version of my default jOrgan, and everything works fine.
 
Today I did it for the Linux/Qsynth version of the same organ.  And everything works fine EXCEPT - when I press piston  no. 7, not only do the appropriate stops light up on my screen, but note d#4 on the Great manual also speaks  !!!
 
Well, it can't be a wiring error, because it only happens in Linux and not in Windows.
 
Now, when I press piston no. 7, the MIDI message [146, 75, 100] is sent from my Pedal encoder on channel 3.  (146 is the channel 3 note-on message;  75 corresponds to one of the spare pins on my Pedal encoder, and 100 is the default velocity on my Pedal encoder).
 
In order to play note d#4 on the Great division, I would normally press the appropriate key on the Great manual, and MIDI message [144, 75, 103] would be transmitted on channel 1 (144 is the channel 1 note-on message, 75 is the MIDI number for note d#4, and 103 is the default velocity on my Great encoder).
 
Do you think maybe Linux needs spectacles?  It can't distinguish the difference between  [146, 75, 100] and [144, 75, 103] ?
 
Graham
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes

Hi, Graham,
 
                 Can't help you there I'm afraid, except to confirm your findings on my setup. I'm running Bruce Miles' cinema organ on jOrgan 2.3.6, using a rather clumsy method of encoding home-made pedals. I've built the PCB from a cheap computer keyboard into the pedal board, and connected it to a computer running midiox. Of course, using data mapping, I can send any MIDI message I want.
 
     I tried sending both control and prog. change messages to the SETTER piston, with exactly the results you found, the 'waiting for message' dialogue clears down OK, but the control doesn't respond when you switch back to play mode... Very odd!
 
     Have fun,
 
         Roy.

Graham Harrison <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Sven

Whilst I can now activate my virtual pistons using real pistons (switches)
on my console, I cannot seem to do the same with the captor (Set) element.
In Construct mode, I can record the MIDI message when I press the real Set
button, but in Play mode, it does not seem to work.
It's no big deal - I can set my combinations using the mouse and the
on-screen Set button, but it would be nice to be able to do it without the
mouse!
Any comment please?

Graham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sven Meier"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes


> Hi Graham,
>
> glad to hear that you found a solution.
>
> Yes, a console listens on Midi message from a single device only. Thus
> all elements on this console will only be able to react to Midi messages
> if sent from this single device.
> In this setup your right - using the Midi merger is the best option.
>
> But I wouldn't suggest to use the Midi merger all the time. It's an
> additional indirection to manage which might not be justifiable for
> simpler setups.
>
> Sven
>


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Re: More piston woes

RoyR
Hi, Graham,
 
                   Just a stab in the dark, but could this be something to do with MIDI OMNI mode, responding to the same basic message regardless of channel? Then the only difference would be the velocity, and I don't suppose 100-103 would notice.
 
   ...Still doesn't explain the Windows v Linux bit, unless, perhaps, one defaults to OMNI mode and the other doesn't???
 
     Have fun,
 
         Roy.

Graham Harrison <[hidden email]> wrote:
Not the only thing that is odd - try this one for size:
 
Having got my real pistons to activate the on-screen virtual pistons, I set up various stop combinations.
Yesterday I did it for the Windows/sfz version of my default jOrgan, and everything works fine.
 
Today I did it for the Linux/Qsynth version of the same organ.  And everything works fine EXCEPT - when I press piston  no. 7, not only do the appropriate stops light up on my screen, but note d#4 on the Great manual also speaks  !!!
 
Well, it can't be a wiring error, because it only happens in Linux and not in Windows.
 
Now, when I press piston no. 7, the MIDI message [146, 75, 100] is sent from my Pedal encoder on channel 3.  (146 is the channel 3 note-on message;  75 corresponds to one of the spare pins on my Pedal encoder, and 100 is the default velocity on my Pedal encoder).
 
In order to play note d#4 on the Great division, I would normally press the appropriate key on the Great manual, and MIDI message [144, 75, 103] would be transmitted on channel 1 (144 is the channel 1 note-on message, 75 is the MIDI number for note d#4, and 103 is the default velocity on my Great encoder).
 
Do you think maybe Linux needs spectacles?  It can't distinguish the difference between  [146, 75, 100] and [144, 75, 103] ?
 
Graham
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes

Hi, Graham,
 
                 Can't help you there I'm afraid, except to confirm your findings on my setup. I'm running Bruce Miles' cinema organ on jOrgan 2.3.6, using a rather clumsy method of encoding home-made pedals. I've built the PCB from a cheap computer keyboard into the pedal board, and connected it to a computer running midiox. Of course, using data mapping, I can send any MIDI message I want.
 
     I tried sending both control and prog. change messages to the SETTER piston, with exactly the results you found, the 'waiting for message' dialogue clears down OK, but the control doesn't respond when you switch back to play mode... Very odd!
 
     Have fun,
 
         Roy.

Graham Harrison <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Sven

Whilst I can now activate my virtual pistons using real pistons (switches)
on my console, I cannot seem to do the same with the captor (Set) element.
In Construct mode, I can record the MIDI message when I press the real Set
button, but in Play mode, it does not seem to work.
It's no big deal - I can set my combinations using the mouse and the
on-screen Set button, but it would be nice to be able to do it without the
mouse!
Any comment please?

Graham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sven Meier"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes


> Hi Graham,
>
> glad to hear that you found a solution.
>
> Yes, a console listens on Midi message from a single device only. Thus
> all elements on this console will only be able to react to Midi messages
> if sent from this single device.
> In this setup your right - using the Midi merger is the best option.
>
> But I wouldn't suggest to use the Midi merger all the time. It's an
> additional indirection to manage which might not be justifiable for
> simpler setups.
>
> Sven
>


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Re: More piston woes

Jim Pinder
In reply to this post by Graham Harrison
Boy - another convert to Midi Merger !!!

----Original Message----
From: [hidden email]
Date: 09/04/2007 8:50
To: <[hidden email]>
Subj: Re: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes

Hi Kent & Peter
 
Thanks for your input - however, the answer came to me while I was having a wash and shave this morning!
Because the Console device property was set to SB Audigy 2ZS MIDI IO, that was the port from which elements on the console expected to receive activation messages.
But the messages to activate the pistons were being sent from three different keyboard devices, namely the USB Midisport 4x4 ports.
Answer - set all Console and keyboard devices to jOrgan Midi Merger and use that!
 
Sven - yet another reason to retain the Midi Merger function!
 
Graham
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes

Hello Graham

 

Pistons

I have tested out your problem (sort of!) using my pedal board, which runs through Ch 5, and I can receive both Note- On and Note-Off messages.

In order to make my set up work correctly with Note-On, I have to set the Activate Message to be:

(148, Note-Num,+ ).

The + sign means any non-zero value. This overcomes the problem of any variable output velocity from the pedals.

 

I see you are using Note-Off = (128+Ch, Note Num, Velocity) to cancel your Pistons.

An alternative to this would be (148+Ch, Note-Num, 0).

 

Hope this may help!

 

Regards

 

Peter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Re: More piston woes

Sven Meier
Administrator
In reply to this post by Graham Harrison
Hi Graham,

you're right - the Captor element didn't react to Midi messages ...
until now. It was an oversight :(.

I fixed it, so you'll be able to enjoy this improvement with the next
jOrgan version.

Sven

Graham Harrison wrote:

> Hi Sven
>
> Whilst I can now activate my virtual pistons using real pistons (switches)
> on my console, I cannot seem to do the same with the captor (Set) element.
> In Construct mode, I can record the MIDI message when I press the real Set
> button, but in Play mode, it does not seem to work.
> It's no big deal - I can set my combinations using the mouse and the
> on-screen Set button, but it would be nice to be able to do it without the
> mouse!
> Any comment please?
>
> Graham
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sven Meier" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 9:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] More piston woes
>
>
>  
>> Hi Graham,
>>
>> glad to hear that you found a solution.
>>
>> Yes, a console listens on Midi message from a single device only. Thus
>> all elements on this console will only be able to react to Midi messages
>> if sent from this single device.
>> In this setup your right - using the Midi merger is the best option.
>>
>> But I wouldn't suggest to use the Midi merger all the time. It's an
>> additional indirection to manage which might not be justifiable for
>> simpler setups.
>>
>> Sven
>>
>>    
>
>
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>  


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