Mac MidiEncoder problem

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Mac MidiEncoder problem

PaulMat
Hello all,
New user here and I'm trying to get jOrgan setup to send out a midi note on/off message when I activate a stop tab. I've gotten things installed so that I can activate the desired stoptab from an incoming note message just fine but I cannot seem to understand the way to get it to send the midi message out. I've got midiencoder.jar in the lib and I've tried to create a sound source but I'm not clear on some point, possibly the references?
Could someone who has done this with Mac OS X please assist me?
All the best,
Paul
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Re: Mac MidiEncoder problem

Sven Meier
Administrator
Hi Paul,

could you give us some more information on your setup? What sound
producer are you using / planning to use?
Are your stops referencing the the SoundSource element?

Before we get into OS X specific problems (there are some) we should try
to get the basics right.

Sven

PaulMat schrieb:

> Hello all,
> New user here and I'm trying to get jOrgan setup to send out a midi note
> on/off message when I activate a stop tab. I've gotten things installed so
> that I can activate the desired stoptab from an incoming note message just
> fine but I cannot seem to understand the way to get it to send the midi
> message out. I've got midiencoder.jar in the lib and I've tried to create a
> sound source but I'm not clear on some point, possibly the references?
> Could someone who has done this with Mac OS X please assist me?
> All the best,
> Paul
>  


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Re: Mac MidiEncoder problem

PaulMat
Hello Sven,

First of all let me thank you deeply for making this wonderful  
software available.

Let me try and explain what I'm trying to accomplish. I will not be  
using a sound producer at all but rather am going to use jOrgan as my  
relay and combination action for a pipe organ using midi driver  
boards. I need each stop to produce a note on message when clicked on  
with the mouse and a note off message when clicked off with the  
mouse. I will want them to produce this on/off message on a given  
midi channel. I have a midi driver board set up to accept midi input  
and control the sliders at the end of my windchests.

I have the stops created and have assigned a note on and note off  
already for each one. I do have them referencing the SoundSource  
Element and I have the Sound Source Element type set to MidiEncoder.

I have the midi monitor window open and have the device set to  
monitor the outgoing USB midi cable.
I can successfully control the stops with an incoming message. If I  
send midi messages in the USB midi cable on the notes I programmed,  
the stops will indeed flip up and down as expected but they do not  
seem to issue midi out as i need them to.

What am I missing?

All the best,
Paul



<<Hi Paul,

could you give us some more information on your setup? What sound
producer are you using / planning to use?
Are your stops referencing the the SoundSource element?

Before we get into OS X specific problems (there are some) we should try
to get the basics right.

Sven>>

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Re: Mac MidiEncoder problem

Sven Meier
Administrator
Hi Paul,

so in jOrgan's terms you are using your pipe organ as the sound producer
- we have some users that are doing similar things.
How did you configure the 'device' property of your SoundSource element
- I assume it is set to an external Midi port of your computer?

Note that the MidiEncoder doesn't send note on/off messages in response
of an activation/deactivation of a stop. It just sends note on/off
message for each key press, using a fixed midi channel. This channel is
configurable via the stop's 'program' property.

Sven


International Artists schrieb:

> Hello Sven,
>
> First of all let me thank you deeply for making this wonderful  
> software available.
>
> Let me try and explain what I'm trying to accomplish. I will not be  
> using a sound producer at all but rather am going to use jOrgan as my  
> relay and combination action for a pipe organ using midi driver  
> boards. I need each stop to produce a note on message when clicked on  
> with the mouse and a note off message when clicked off with the  
> mouse. I will want them to produce this on/off message on a given  
> midi channel. I have a midi driver board set up to accept midi input  
> and control the sliders at the end of my windchests.
>
> I have the stops created and have assigned a note on and note off  
> already for each one. I do have them referencing the SoundSource  
> Element and I have the Sound Source Element type set to MidiEncoder.
>
> I have the midi monitor window open and have the device set to  
> monitor the outgoing USB midi cable.
> I can successfully control the stops with an incoming message. If I  
> send midi messages in the USB midi cable on the notes I programmed,  
> the stops will indeed flip up and down as expected but they do not  
> seem to issue midi out as i need them to.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> All the best,
> Paul
>
>
>
> <<Hi Paul,
>
> could you give us some more information on your setup? What sound
> producer are you using / planning to use?
> Are your stops referencing the the SoundSource element?
>
> Before we get into OS X specific problems (there are some) we should try
> to get the basics right.
>
> Sven>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
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> jOrgan-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>
>  


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Re: Mac MidiEncoder problem

Johnc
In reply to this post by PaulMat
Paul,
Sounds like you have everything lined up, however, as Sven mentioned,  the "program element" on each of your stops must be set to the midi channel you want.  My computer is a pc running xp, but I don't think that the setup is any different.
I am doing essentially the same thing you describe, except I am running virtual ranks as well as pipes, all controlled from the console.   Currently I have three pipe ranks setup and have outputs on midi channels  1,2,3.  However, the program numbers on the stops are 0,1, 2.  The midimonitor will show 1,2,3.
How do you have your program numbers on the stops set up?
In my case, I use midibox decoders which respond to multiple channel assignments.  If you are using single channel decoders, one per rank,  be sure that each decoder module is set to the correct channel.  If you would like to share some details, email me at jwcouvillon@cox.net.
Good Luck
Johnc
PaulMat wrote
Hello Sven,

First of all let me thank you deeply for making this wonderful  
software available.

Let me try and explain what I'm trying to accomplish. I will not be  
using a sound producer at all but rather am going to use jOrgan as my  
relay and combination action for a pipe organ using midi driver  
boards. I need each stop to produce a note on message when clicked on  
with the mouse and a note off message when clicked off with the  
mouse. I will want them to produce this on/off message on a given  
midi channel. I have a midi driver board set up to accept midi input  
and control the sliders at the end of my windchests.

I have the stops created and have assigned a note on and note off  
already for each one. I do have them referencing the SoundSource  
Element and I have the Sound Source Element type set to MidiEncoder.

I have the midi monitor window open and have the device set to  
monitor the outgoing USB midi cable.
I can successfully control the stops with an incoming message. If I  
send midi messages in the USB midi cable on the notes I programmed,  
the stops will indeed flip up and down as expected but they do not  
seem to issue midi out as i need them to.

What am I missing?

All the best,
Paul



<<Hi Paul,

could you give us some more information on your setup? What sound
producer are you using / planning to use?
Are your stops referencing the the SoundSource element?

Before we get into OS X specific problems (there are some) we should try
to get the basics right.

Sven>>

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Re: Mac MidiEncoder problem

PaulMat
In reply to this post by Sven Meier
Hi Sven,

This sounds like I may not be able to do what I need to do here. My  
organ is not unified and I do not need keystrokes sent out via midi  
note on/off.

My chests are straight chests and the stop tabs in jOrgan need to  
activate the slider motors on the end of the windchest not the actual  
pipes themselves so I need some kind of midi output to happen when a  
stop turns on and another message when a stop turns off. Am I reading  
correctly what you wrote below? If so then I'm stuck and won't be  
able to use jOrgan after all.

Anxiously awaiting your answer.

Paul



<<Hi Paul,

so in jOrgan's terms you are using your pipe organ as the sound producer
- we have some users that are doing similar things.
How did you configure the 'device' property of your SoundSource element
- I assume it is set to an external Midi port of your computer?

Note that the MidiEncoder doesn't send note on/off messages in response
of an activation/deactivation of a stop. It just sends note on/off
message for each key press, using a fixed midi channel. This channel is
configurable via the stop's 'program' property.

Sven>>

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Re: Mac MidiEncoder problem

Johnc
In reply to this post by Sven Meier
Sven,
As I understand Pauls problem, it relates to the standing request for jorgan to send out a midi message when a stop tab is set either on the screen, or  by actual stop tab on an organ console.  With that output, he could do as he desires.  This output would also facilitate the use of SAMs on the console.
Suppose he opens a soundsource element called "stoptab" limited to one note, C5; opens a stop element called "pipe" with program set to 12, and assigns two input pins on a separate key encoder(not same one for keyboards) on channel 12, merged with the other midi keyboard info.  Then with  two separate contacts on the actual stop tab on the console,  one contact is used to actuate the stop in jorgan as normally done. The second contact sends  a note on/note off signal to jorgan to play the note (C5). With the soundsource set to "mididecoder", actuating the stop tab would set the stop "on" in jorgan and also play the note C5. If he has a mididecoder setup and programmed to respond  to channel 12, note C5, he could pick up a relay, or whatever to get his rank playing.
Would this work, or am I off track.
I think jorgan is as wonderful product and there ought to be some way to get it to work for Paul.
Johnc

svenmeier wrote
Hi Paul,

so in jOrgan's terms you are using your pipe organ as the sound producer
- we have some users that are doing similar things.
How did you configure the 'device' property of your SoundSource element
- I assume it is set to an external Midi port of your computer?

Note that the MidiEncoder doesn't send note on/off messages in response
of an activation/deactivation of a stop. It just sends note on/off
message for each key press, using a fixed midi channel. This channel is
configurable via the stop's 'program' property.

Sven


International Artists schrieb:
> Hello Sven,
>
> First of all let me thank you deeply for making this wonderful  
> software available.
>
> Let me try and explain what I'm trying to accomplish. I will not be  
> using a sound producer at all but rather am going to use jOrgan as my  
> relay and combination action for a pipe organ using midi driver  
> boards. I need each stop to produce a note on message when clicked on  
> with the mouse and a note off message when clicked off with the  
> mouse. I will want them to produce this on/off message on a given  
> midi channel. I have a midi driver board set up to accept midi input  
> and control the sliders at the end of my windchests.
>
> I have the stops created and have assigned a note on and note off  
> already for each one. I do have them referencing the SoundSource  
> Element and I have the Sound Source Element type set to MidiEncoder.
>
> I have the midi monitor window open and have the device set to  
> monitor the outgoing USB midi cable.
> I can successfully control the stops with an incoming message. If I  
> send midi messages in the USB midi cable on the notes I programmed,  
> the stops will indeed flip up and down as expected but they do not  
> seem to issue midi out as i need them to.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> All the best,
> Paul
>
>
>
> <<Hi Paul,
>
> could you give us some more information on your setup? What sound
> producer are you using / planning to use?
> Are your stops referencing the the SoundSource element?
>
> Before we get into OS X specific problems (there are some) we should try
> to get the basics right.
>
> Sven>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> jOrgan-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>
>  


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Re: [Jorgan-user] Mac MidiEncoder problem

PaulMat
Hi John,

Thanks for your clarification. Yes, exactly, I need for jOrgan to  
produce the same midi note on/off when a stop in it is activated or  
retired from the computer screen. My hope is that it won't require a  
physical stop tab at all but rather only physical pistons to activate  
the on screen pistons which will set a combination to the on screen  
stops.

I'm happy to have anyone in the group look at my disposition and make  
recommendations. I really do hope that this can be made to work.

Paul

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Re: [Jorgan-user] Mac MidiEncoder problem

Sven Meier
Administrator
Paul,

sending midi messages on change of elements (may it be stops or anything
else) was already requested on this list / forum.
Thanks to John for reminding us of this topic.

I think this feature would be great as well. But I dare to demur that
the described setup limits the usage of jOrgan to a simple button panel
for initiating of midi messages. IMHO we're talking about a rare case
that's not in the main focus of jOrgan.

I'm not against this feature but it's definitely not on the list of
short term goals. That doesn't mean we'll have to wait 2 years for this
feature but my spare time is limited ;).

Sven

International Artists schrieb:

> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for your clarification. Yes, exactly, I need for jOrgan to  
> produce the same midi note on/off when a stop in it is activated or  
> retired from the computer screen. My hope is that it won't require a  
> physical stop tab at all but rather only physical pistons to activate  
> the on screen pistons which will set a combination to the on screen  
> stops.
>
> I'm happy to have anyone in the group look at my disposition and make  
> recommendations. I really do hope that this can be made to work.
>
> Paul
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>
>  


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Re: [Jorgan-user] Mac MidiEncoder problem

PaulMat
Hi Sven,

Thanks for taking time to answer this. I'm glad that it's on your to  
do list. Actually it's a lot more valuable than just a way to turn on  
stops from a monitor, I want to use the combination action from  
jOrgan as well as add my own digital samples so that when it's too  
late at night to play the actual pipes, I can still practice using  
jOrgan. I'm going to record all of the ranks in my organ and process  
them into a sound font. I've done this for several other organs  
already with  pretty good success. I really do like the jOrgan  
approach for controlling stops though and hope that you will soon  
make this feature available to those who want it.

I'm glad that others have a need for this too.

Thank you again,
Paul






<<<Paul,

sending midi messages on change of elements (may it be stops or anything
else) was already requested on this list / forum.
Thanks to John for reminding us of this topic.

I think this feature would be great as well. But I dare to demur that
the described setup limits the usage of jOrgan to a simple button panel
for initiating of midi messages. IMHO we're talking about a rare case
that's not in the main focus of jOrgan.

I'm not against this feature but it's definitely not on the list of
short term goals. That doesn't mean we'll have to wait 2 years for this
feature but my spare time is limited ;).

Sven>>>


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Re: Mac MidiEncoder problem

Bruce Miles-3
In reply to this post by PaulMat
Hello Paul,

I'm not too sure I've fully understood what you are trying to do - but
here goes.

You can arrange for jOrgan to send note on and off messages from
on-screen stop tabs or knobs by using Keyer elements, setting Locking to
True and the style property to stop tab (ie a colour) or (in the Classic
skin) to Stop or Coupler. Then reference each Keyer element to a hidden
Stop element with the properties - Action set to Constant and - Active
set to True. The Transpose property can be set to any note (+ or -
relative to middle C) and the Program property to the required channel
number. All the stops will be referenced to a Sound Source and if you
have the Soundsource property set to Mididecoder the Stop Program
property will determine the channel number.

It sounds complicated but this is the exact arrangement (except for the
Mididecoder bit) used for the Surf theatre organ effect in my corg_c
disposition - the other effects are similar but use non-locking pistons
to operate them. What you are doing is playing a fixed note which is
masquerading as a stop. The actual stop is always 'on' and is hidden.
Its identity (program number) is being specially interpreted by jOrgan
as a channel number. You can operate the whole thing from incoming Midi
messages though I'm not sure whether this would acheive anything.- just
enter the messages in the Keyer Activate and DeactivateMessage properties.

The name 'Soundsource' is a bit misleading - it's just the part of
jOrgan which connects to the actual sound source, usually a synth but in
your case a real pipe chest.

Hope this makes sense.

Have fun

Bruce



International Artists wrote:

> Hi Sven,
>
> This sounds like I may not be able to do what I need to do here. My  
> organ is not unified and I do not need keystrokes sent out via midi  
> note on/off.
>
> My chests are straight chests and the stop tabs in jOrgan need to  
> activate the slider motors on the end of the windchest not the actual  
> pipes themselves so I need some kind of midi output to happen when a  
> stop turns on and another message when a stop turns off. Am I reading  
> correctly what you wrote below? If so then I'm stuck and won't be  
> able to use jOrgan after all.
>
> Anxiously awaiting your answer.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> <<Hi Paul,
>
> so in jOrgan's terms you are using your pipe organ as the sound producer
> - we have some users that are doing similar things.
> How did you configure the 'device' property of your SoundSource element
> - I assume it is set to an external Midi port of your computer?
>
> Note that the MidiEncoder doesn't send note on/off messages in response
> of an activation/deactivation of a stop. It just sends note on/off
> message for each key press, using a fixed midi channel. This channel is
> configurable via the stop's 'program' property.
>
> Sven>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>
>
>  


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Re: Mac MidiEncoder problem

PaulMat
Hi Bruce,

That's exactly what I needed! I cannot thank you enough. I just tried  
your method and it works like a real charm. The stops work and they  
send out the midi note messages I need. Now I can have jOrgan run my  
pipe organ and have the computerized combination action I've needed.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Paul



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Re: Mac MidiEncoder problem

Sven Meier
Administrator
In reply to this post by Bruce Miles-3
Bruce,

wow, you really got me impressed. Why didn't I thought of this? ;)

Using the Keyer for this is a really nice trick.

Sven

Bruce Miles schrieb:

> Hello Paul,
>
> I'm not too sure I've fully understood what you are trying to do - but
> here goes.
>
> You can arrange for jOrgan to send note on and off messages from
> on-screen stop tabs or knobs by using Keyer elements, setting Locking to
> True and the style property to stop tab (ie a colour) or (in the Classic
> skin) to Stop or Coupler. Then reference each Keyer element to a hidden
> Stop element with the properties - Action set to Constant and - Active
> set to True. The Transpose property can be set to any note (+ or -
> relative to middle C) and the Program property to the required channel
> number. All the stops will be referenced to a Sound Source and if you
> have the Soundsource property set to Mididecoder the Stop Program
> property will determine the channel number.
>
> It sounds complicated but this is the exact arrangement (except for the
> Mididecoder bit) used for the Surf theatre organ effect in my corg_c
> disposition - the other effects are similar but use non-locking pistons
> to operate them. What you are doing is playing a fixed note which is
> masquerading as a stop. The actual stop is always 'on' and is hidden.
> Its identity (program number) is being specially interpreted by jOrgan
> as a channel number. You can operate the whole thing from incoming Midi
> messages though I'm not sure whether this would acheive anything.- just
> enter the messages in the Keyer Activate and DeactivateMessage properties.
>
> The name 'Soundsource' is a bit misleading - it's just the part of
> jOrgan which connects to the actual sound source, usually a synth but in
> your case a real pipe chest.
>
> Hope this makes sense.
>
> Have fun
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> International Artists wrote:
>  
>> Hi Sven,
>>
>> This sounds like I may not be able to do what I need to do here. My  
>> organ is not unified and I do not need keystrokes sent out via midi  
>> note on/off.
>>
>> My chests are straight chests and the stop tabs in jOrgan need to  
>> activate the slider motors on the end of the windchest not the actual  
>> pipes themselves so I need some kind of midi output to happen when a  
>> stop turns on and another message when a stop turns off. Am I reading  
>> correctly what you wrote below? If so then I'm stuck and won't be  
>> able to use jOrgan after all.
>>
>> Anxiously awaiting your answer.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> <<Hi Paul,
>>
>> so in jOrgan's terms you are using your pipe organ as the sound producer
>> - we have some users that are doing similar things.
>> How did you configure the 'device' property of your SoundSource element
>> - I assume it is set to an external Midi port of your computer?
>>
>> Note that the MidiEncoder doesn't send note on/off messages in response
>> of an activation/deactivation of a stop. It just sends note on/off
>> message for each key press, using a fixed midi channel. This channel is
>> configurable via the stop's 'program' property.
>>
>> Sven>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Mac MidiEncoder problem

PaulMat
Hi Bruce and Sven,

YES!! It works perfectly. I now have my pipe organ up and running on  
jOrgan with a full combination action and a beautiful drawknob stop  
screen

A million thanks!

Paul




<<Bruce,

wow, you really got me impressed. Why didn't I thought of this? ;)

Using the Keyer for this is a really nice trick.

Sven>>

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Re: Mac MidiEncoder problem

Bruce Miles-3
Sven and Paul,

I blush with embarassment. After all Sven, you designed the Keyer in the
first place - and had the forethought to make it controllable by the
combinations. That really is a nice touch.. So please accept your share
of the kudos.

This keyer - stop combination is also a way to send other midi messages
from jOrgan but you must (SFAICS) use the Midiox data Map Facility to
convert the note messages to the message you want.

Bruce

International Artists wrote:

> Hi Bruce and Sven,
>
> YES!! It works perfectly. I now have my pipe organ up and running on  
> jOrgan with a full combination action and a beautiful drawknob stop  
> screen
>
> A million thanks!
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> <<Bruce,
>
> wow, you really got me impressed. Why didn't I thought of this? ;)
>
> Using the Keyer for this is a really nice trick.
>
> Sven>>
>
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> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
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> jOrgan-user mailing list
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>
>
>  


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Re: Mac MidiEncoder problem

John Reimer
Administrator
I have brought this very old thread to your attention (it is not only
relevant to Mac issues) because it contains a solution to a particular
problem which the late Bruce Miles shared at the time. It shows that
resourceful people like Bruce were able to make jOrgan perform useful
results which, in this case, Sven himself did not anticipate.

John Reimer



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