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Controlling stop and tab solenoids

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Controlling stop and tab solenoids

colinw
Hi
I have a question related to the control of stop and tab solenoids using a jOrgan disposition. Searching past posts I can find info on a SAMS module in jOrgan. However, I cannot find any information on to how to set up the stop (and coupler tab) solenoids so that they move when using presets.

I have converted a Rodgers American Classic (1972), (3 manual + pedal) to run jOrgan using the MIDI Boutique hardware. The computer (Apple laptop) is connected to the hardware using one USB cable that goes to a MIDI Boutique UMI2x2 box.

There are six KEYMUX64 boards (MIDI Boutique) that handle the inputs from the keyboards, pedals, stops, tabs and preset thumb buttons. These all connect to a HWCE2x encoder and the MIDI_out of the HWCE2x connects to one of the UMI2x2 inputs. The other UMI2x2 input is connected to MIDI_in of a MDDP128UMN/128 solenoid driver board. I have two of these that drive the solenoids of the stops and tabs, the two boards are daisy-chained with one board set for MIDI channel 7 and the other on channel 8.

Everything works just fine, except for one feature involving presets. Lets say I have a particular stop combination that I would like to store into preset thumb button 1 on the Swell. For example, if I use the St Paul's Toronto disposition, the sequence is
i) select the stops required from the Swell group (either by clicking stop icons on the computer screen or physically pulling the stops on the organ)
ii) push the SET thumb button
iii) push preset button 1 in the Swell preset group
This stores that Swell stop combination into preset thumb button 1. So far, so good.

Now lets say I change the Swell stop combination (either using cancel or pulling additional stops or engaging a different preset button)
When I go back to preset 1 (push it), the stop icons on the computer screen and the sound responds correctly but the physical stops do nothing.

How do I get the physical stops on the organ to move in response to a particular preset button?

All the hardware is there and working as I have tested that the stop and tab solenoids work by sending MIDI on/off messages to channels 7 and 8 using another MIDI test program.
Somehow MIDI messages need to get sent to the MDDP128UMN/128 boards (chan 7,8) from jOrgan when a preset button is pushed. How does one program that?

In the Configure section of the disposition I can see two MIDI ports (on the Apple). When configuring the stops etc, I have the input set to port1 so jOrgan knows when I select stops and tabs.

Is there a separate Configure section in the disposition for setting up control of the solenoid driver boards (MDDP128UMN/128) on channels 7 and 8?
How does one relate the inputs (which work fine) and the solenoid drive MIDI messages for a given stop?

Thanks

Colin

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Re: Controlling stop and tab solenoids

John Reimer
Administrator
colinw wrote
How do I get the physical stops on the organ to move in response to a particular preset button?

All the hardware is there and working as I have tested that the stop and tab solenoids work by sending MIDI on/off messages to channels 7 and 8 using another MIDI test program.
Somehow MIDI messages need to get sent to the MDDP128UMN/128 boards (chan 7,8) from jOrgan when a preset button is pushed. How does one program that?
Colin,

jOrgan will certainly allow you to do that. We can assume it will work well, so long as the solenoids and the associated contacts are in good working condition, without particular contact-bounce issues.

I do not have personal experience of this, and I seem to remember answering a similar question on this Forum not all that long ago. But I am reasonably sure that the way you program it into the disposition is to insert the appropriate numbers in the Messages View for each particular stop (accessed in Construct Mode), at the end of the lines relating to "Activated" or "Deactivated" (I think - I don't have a disposition in front of me as I write this). You will need somehow to discover what the MIDI messages for particular solenoids are (related of course to the MIDI channels being used).

My hope is that someone with hands-on experience will fill in the gaps for us, but unfortunately that didn't happen last time!

Have you checked the Tutorials page on the jOrgan Wiki to see if there is a relevant tutorial there?

John Reimer
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Re: Controlling stop and tab solenoids

colinw
 > Have you checked the Tutorials page on the jOrgan Wiki to see if there is a relevant tutorial there?

Yes, I looked over the jorgan-home.de site and the jOrganBegUMcol pdf's looked promising (Bill Skees docs), particularly section 19.7 but its incomplete. The was some discussion on the forum about SAMS last year (or the year before). However, that (appeared to me) to be dealing with the programming of the SAM sequence in Construct Organ. Sven informed me that I did not need that as the MIDI Boutique board firmware takes care of that aspect of the SAMS.
I can move the stops in/out by sending note ON/OFF messages to the MDDP128UMN/128 stop solenoid driver board (correct MIDI channel and pin) - no problem.

I have all the MIDI channel and message information for my hardware setup. Perhaps some specific values might help illustrate the problem.  Lets say I pull only one Swell stop and store that setting into Swell preset button 1.

On my hardware, specific values are as follows (from Construct Organ->Elements->Messages):
The Swell stop sense signal (0-5V rail to sense if the stop is on or off) is (for this stop)
  Deactivate  equal 132, equal 53, equal 100
  Activate  equal 148, equal 53, equal 100
i.e. this is mapped to MIDI channel 5 so noteOn=148, noteOFF=132 and the 53 is related to where it connects to the keymux board

The Swell preset button 1 is
  Toggle equal 149, equal 69, equal 100
i.e. this is on MIDI channel 6 where noteON=149

The Swell stop solenoid drive (which connects to the MDDP128UMN/128 board) is
  Activated  set 134, set 14, set 127
  Deactivated  set 150, set 14, set 127
i.e. this is on MIDI channel 7 where noteOn=150 and noteOFF=134

The options I have for these elements in Construct Organ are
Activate
Activated
Deactivate
Deactivated
Toggle

I suspect I need to add some combination of these either in the Swell stop sense or the Swell stop solenoid drive elements, or perhaps in both but am not sure where/what.
Perhaps I am not understanding the different function of 'Activate' compared with 'Activated'

I am able to send a 'clear all' MIDI message to the MDDP128UMN/128 board.

thanks for the help

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Re: Controlling stop and tab solenoids

John Reimer
Administrator
Colin,

I regret that my help was so limited. It is clear that I am out of my depth with this particular subject. And I should have been referring to rank MPL messages rather than stop messages. One thing though - have you selected your MIDI decoder for the Output in the Connector Properties (Construct Mode)?

Hopefully someone in the know will give you the answers you need before long.

John Reimer
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Re: Controlling stop and tab solenoids

lwalls
In reply to this post by colinw
Collin,

You haven't described anything about how you have configured the CONNECTOR elements for
the STOP elements.  Make sure that the CONNECTOR element's OUTPUT property specifies the
MIDI device name for the MIDI cable going to the MIDI decoder/Stop solenoid driver board.

Then use MIDI-Ox to observe the MIDI messages sent on this channel when you manually
toggle the Stop icons on the computer screen.  MIDI-Ox will show you exactly what MIDI
messages (if any!) are being send to the decoder for each Stop graphic that you click on.

CLW

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2/21/2017 6:22 PM, colinw wrote:

>  > Have you checked the Tutorials page on the jOrgan Wiki to see if there is
> a relevant tutorial there?
>
> Yes, I looked over the jorgan-home.de site and the jOrganBegUMcol pdf's
> looked promising (Bill Skees docs), particularly section 19.7 but its
> incomplete. The was some discussion on the forum about SAMS last year (or
> the year before). However, that (appeared to me) to be dealing with the
> programming of the SAM sequence in Construct Organ. Sven informed me that I
> did not need that as the MIDI Boutique board firmware takes care of that
> aspect of the SAMS.
> I can move the stops in/out by sending note ON/OFF messages to the
> MDDP128UMN/128 stop solenoid driver board (correct MIDI channel and pin) -
> no problem.
>
> I have all the MIDI channel and message information for my hardware setup.
> Perhaps some specific values might help illustrate the problem.  Lets say I
> pull only one Swell stop and store that setting into Swell preset button 1.
>
> On my hardware, specific values are as follows (from Construct
> Organ->Elements->Messages):
> The Swell stop sense signal (0-5V rail to sense if the stop is on or off) is
> (for this stop)
>   Deactivate  equal 132, equal 53, equal 100
>   Activate  equal 148, equal 53, equal 100
> i.e. this is mapped to MIDI channel 5 so noteOn=148, noteOFF=132 and the 53
> is related to where it connects to the keymux board
>
> The Swell preset button 1 is
>   Toggle equal 149, equal 69, equal 100
> i.e. this is on MIDI channel 6 where noteON=149
>
> The Swell stop solenoid drive (which connects to the MDDP128UMN/128 board)
> is
>   Activated  set 134, set 14, set 127
>   Deactivated  set 150, set 14, set 127
> i.e. this is on MIDI channel 7 where noteOn=150 and noteOFF=134
>
> The options I have for these elements in Construct Organ are
> Activate
> Activated
> Deactivate
> Deactivated
> Toggle
>
> I suspect I need to add some combination of these either in the Swell stop
> sense or the Swell stop solenoid drive elements, or perhaps in both but am
> not sure where/what.
> Perhaps I am not understanding the different function of 'Activate' compared
> with 'Activated'
>
> I am able to send a 'clear all' MIDI message to the MDDP128UMN/128 board.
>
> thanks for the help
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Controlling-stop-and-tab-solenoids-tp4664488p4664505.html
> Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
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Re: Controlling stop and tab solenoids

lwalls
In reply to this post by colinw
P.S.: If you don't have MIDI-Ox or don't know how or want to use it, there is a built-in
MIDI monitor in jOrgan itself.  Personally, I prefer MIDI-Ox because it operates OUTSIDE
of jOrgan and shows absolutely what MIDI messages are being sent into jOrgan as well as
what MIDI messages are being sent out from jOrgan.  JOrgan's internal MIDI monitor does
this as well...but I find MIDI-Ox is a little easier to use.

CLW

--------------------------------------------------

Colin,

You haven't described anything about how you have configured the CONNECTOR elements for
the STOP elements.  Make sure that the CONNECTOR element's OUTPUT property specifies the
MIDI device name for the MIDI cable going to the MIDI decoder/Stop solenoid driver board.

Then use MIDI-Ox to observe the MIDI messages sent on this channel when you manually
toggle the Stop icons on the computer screen.  MIDI-Ox will show you exactly what MIDI
messages (if any!) are being send to the decoder for each Stop graphic that you click on.

CLW

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2/21/2017 6:22 PM, colinw wrote:

>  > Have you checked the Tutorials page on the jOrgan Wiki to see if there is
> a relevant tutorial there?
>
> Yes, I looked over the jorgan-home.de site and the jOrganBegUMcol pdf's
> looked promising (Bill Skees docs), particularly section 19.7 but its
> incomplete. The was some discussion on the forum about SAMS last year (or
> the year before). However, that (appeared to me) to be dealing with the
> programming of the SAM sequence in Construct Organ. Sven informed me that I
> did not need that as the MIDI Boutique board firmware takes care of that
> aspect of the SAMS.
> I can move the stops in/out by sending note ON/OFF messages to the
> MDDP128UMN/128 stop solenoid driver board (correct MIDI channel and pin) -
> no problem.
>
> I have all the MIDI channel and message information for my hardware setup.
> Perhaps some specific values might help illustrate the problem.  Lets say I
> pull only one Swell stop and store that setting into Swell preset button 1.
>
> On my hardware, specific values are as follows (from Construct
> Organ->Elements->Messages):
> The Swell stop sense signal (0-5V rail to sense if the stop is on or off) is
> (for this stop)
>   Deactivate  equal 132, equal 53, equal 100
>   Activate  equal 148, equal 53, equal 100
> i.e. this is mapped to MIDI channel 5 so noteOn=148, noteOFF=132 and the 53
> is related to where it connects to the keymux board
>
> The Swell preset button 1 is
>   Toggle equal 149, equal 69, equal 100
> i.e. this is on MIDI channel 6 where noteON=149
>
> The Swell stop solenoid drive (which connects to the MDDP128UMN/128 board)
> is
>   Activated  set 134, set 14, set 127
>   Deactivated  set 150, set 14, set 127
> i.e. this is on MIDI channel 7 where noteOn=150 and noteOFF=134
>
> The options I have for these elements in Construct Organ are
> Activate
> Activated
> Deactivate
> Deactivated
> Toggle
>
> I suspect I need to add some combination of these either in the Swell stop
> sense or the Swell stop solenoid drive elements, or perhaps in both but am
> not sure where/what.
> Perhaps I am not understanding the different function of 'Activate' compared
> with 'Activated'
>
> I am able to send a 'clear all' MIDI message to the MDDP128UMN/128 board.
>
> thanks for the help
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Controlling-stop-and-tab-solenoids-tp4664488p4664505.html
> Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
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