Commercial Implications of jOrgan

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Commercial Implications of jOrgan

John Reimer
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Sven,

I plan to MIDIfy the analogue electronic organ in my local church, which I play for a service every Sunday. It is my intention to use a disposition and soundfont of my own making, a new one which I have been working on now for about a year, and is nearly finished. Is there a licence fee for this use of jOrgan?

A second question: There is a local business based not far from Sydney which has begun to make virtual organs. Their approach in terms of quality of console etc. appears to be quite up-market. So far they have only used Hauptwerk. If I could persuade them to use jOrgan if a customer so desired, would there be a licence fee in that situation?

John Reimer

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Re: Commercial Implications of jOrgan

Sven Meier
Administrator
Hi John,

jOrgan doesn't have a license fee and you and others can use it for
whatever they want.

There are some implications from the GPL license (e.g. redistribution of
source code) but I don't think these should pose any problems to the
usage you have described.

Have fun
Sven

P.S.: If someone makes a s**tload of money with it, I'd appreciate a
donation though ;).


On 27.04.2015 03:22, John Reimer wrote:

> Sven,
>
> I plan to MIDIfy the analogue electronic organ in my local church, which I
> play for a service every Sunday. It is my intention to use a disposition and
> soundfont of my own making, a new one which I have been working on now for
> about a year, and is nearly finished. Is there a licence fee for this use of
> jOrgan?
>
> A second question: There is a local business based not far from Sydney which
> has begun to make virtual organs. Their approach in terms of quality of
> console etc. appears to be quite up-market. So far they have only used
> Hauptwerk. If I could persuade them to use jOrgan if a customer so desired,
> would there be a licence fee in that situation?
>
> John Reimer
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Commercial-Implications-of-jOrgan-tp4662189.html
> Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: Commercial Implications of jOrgan

John Reimer
Administrator
Sven,

Thank you for that answer, and for the great generosity of spirit which lies behind it. That is one of the matters which have motivated a number of us, I am sure, to contribute to the development of your marvellous program by our own effort and time.

I regret that my project will not be making any money for anyone. And as for other projects making loads of money - well I guess you already suspect that it won't be happening any time soon.   ;-)

John Reimer
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Re: Commercial Implications of jOrgan

Peter Hanlon
Hi John,

I too applaud the generosity of spirit which pervades this forum.

I am not a musician, but with a decent God-given share of IT knowledge, and Arduino expertise. I have been using my 1970 Schober organ in a MIDIfication project, and am definitely getting there. I think that there is scope for significant simplification in ribbon cabling/buses using the Arduino.

Occasionally, the forum lobs into my own geographical backyard, and I would be interested to know of your own Church project location, and possibly of the Sydney based commercial outfit which you mentioned.

Peter Hanlon

On 27 Apr 2015, at 8:46 pm, John Reimer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sven,
>
> Thank you for that answer, and for the great generosity of spirit which lies
> behind it. That is one of the matters which have motivated a number of us, I
> am sure, to contribute to the development of your marvellous program by our
> own effort and time.
>
> I regret that my project will not be making any money for anyone. And as for
> other projects making loads of money - well I guess you already suspect that
> it won't be happening any time soon.   ;-)
>
> John Reimer
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/Commercial-Implications-of-jOrgan-tp4662189p4662192.html
> Sent from the jOrgan - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user


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Re: Commercial Implications of jOrgan

John Reimer
Administrator
Hi Peter,

The analogue electronic organ which I play each Sunday, and which I built 35 years ago as the first of five similar organs built for Sydney churches during the 1980's, is in the Anglican Church in the Sydney suburb of Earlwood.
When I turned it on for today's service, a fault was there which rendered it unusable - the first time for many years. (Perhaps it has got wind of my plan to MIDIfy it, and is showing its displeasure.)

The company making virtual organs is on the Central Coast, just north of Sydney. Its website is at
www.virtualpipeorgan.com.au

I have sent you an email with my contact details.

Best wishes,
John Reimer
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Re: Commercial Implications of jOrgan

Pete Theisen
On 05/02/2015 08:18 PM, John Reimer wrote:

> Hi Peter,
>
> The analogue electronic organ which I play each Sunday, and which I built 35
> years ago as the first of five similar organs built for Sydney churches
> during the 1980's, is in the Anglican Church in the Sydney suburb of
> Earlwood.
> When I turned it on for today's service, a fault was there which rendered it
> unusable - the first time for many years. (Perhaps it has got wind of my
> plan to MIDIfy it, and is showing its displeasure.)
>
> The company making virtual organs is on the Central Coast, just north of
> Sydney. Its website is at
> www.virtualpipeorgan.com.au
>
> I have sent you an email with my contact details.
>
> Best wishes,
> John Reimer

So, John, will you be able to resurrect the dead by next Sunday?
--
Regards,

Pete
https://www.facebook.com/pete.theisen.5

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Re: Commercial Implications of jOrgan

John Reimer
Administrator
Pete Theisen wrote
So, John, will you be able to resurrect the dead by next Sunday?
Pete,

Actually I am beginning to wonder whether you have a sixth sense. I believe that the organ in question may acquire the name, "The Resurrection Organ" here in Sydney, because the soundfont I plan to use is based on a fine pipe organ, well-known in Sydney musical circles, which most regrettably was destroyed in a terrible fire nine years ago. It so happened that an organist made some recordings of all its pipes a few months before the fire. In a chance conversation with me  nearly 3 years ago, he told me of his recordings. We did not know each other at the time. It turned out that the recordings were very poor indeed, but because of my years of working with fairly unsatisfactory recordings, I was able to do something useful with them. The results are so good that in a few months' time the Earlwood church will be host to a resurrected organ!

To return to your question, a single integrated circuit has failed after 35 years, causing a few notes to sound very odd indeed. I can probably replace it before next Sunday, or apply a temporary work-around. My main problem will be getting access to the back of the organ, because the church now uses the space produced when my organ replaced the pipe organ, as a store room! At my age, I resent the heavy lifting involved.

John  Reimer
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Re: Commercial Implications of jOrgan

Pete Theisen
On 05/03/2015 02:45 AM, John Reimer wrote:
> Pete Theisen wrote
>> So, John, will you be able to resurrect the dead by next Sunday?
>
> Pete,
>
> Actually I am beginning to wonder whether you have a sixth sense.

Hahaha! I was thinking more as a pun on Jesus' resurrection. Church,
Christianity, resurrection - get it? Maybe it wasn't that funny . . .

You can ALWAYS fix an organ. The only reason an organ dies is its
curator gives up on it, or himself dies.

They who placed the storage, are appointed to remove the storage. A
church edict!

> I believe
> that the organ in question may acquire the name, "The Resurrection Organ"
> here in Sydney, because the soundfont I plan to use is based on a fine pipe
> organ, well-known in Sydney musical circles, which most regrettably was
> destroyed in a terrible fire nine years ago. It so happened that an organist
> made some recordings of all its pipes a few months before the fire. In a
> chance conversation with me  nearly 3 years ago, he told me of his
> recordings. We did not know each other at the time. It turned out that the
> recordings were very poor indeed, but because of my years of working with
> fairly unsatisfactory recordings, I was able to do something useful with
> them. The results are so good that in a few months' time the Earlwood church
> will be host to a resurrected organ!
>
> To return to your question, a single integrated circuit has failed after 35
> years, causing a few notes to sound very odd indeed. I can probably replace
> it before next Sunday, or apply a temporary work-around. My main problem
> will be getting access to the back of the organ, because the church now uses
> the space produced when my organ replaced the pipe organ, as a store room!
> At my age, I resent the heavy lifting involved.

--
Regards,

Pete
https://www.facebook.com/pete.theisen.5

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Midification and cabling (was Commercial Implications of jOrgan)

Graham Wykes
In reply to this post by Peter Hanlon

On 02/05/2015, at 9:15 PM, Peter Hanlon wrote:
 I have been using my 1970 Schober organ in a MIDIfication project, and am definitely getting there. I think that there is scope for significant simplification in ribbon cabling/buses using the Arduino.



I too am modifying a Schober.  I have had an Arduino (matrix) scanning the keyboards for a number of years. However, I am intending to switch to the Teensy++ as the MIDI implementation is better IMO. 

I also have a Teensy++2.0 scanning 32 pedals. The entire project (with code) is on the Miditzer forum at http://forum.miditzer.org/viewtopic.php?t=3034 (you might  need to join the forum to see it)

As fas ar cabling goes, I have been studying the possibility of using Sparkfun I2C breakout boards.  (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8130 ) These give 16 i/o pins with communication over a two wire interface.  I'm hoping I will be able to place each board locally to the 16 stops it services with the I2C bus wires and two power supply wires daisy-chained between each board.  With the arduino/teensy sitting somewhere near near the physical middle of the bus, distances shouldn't be a problem. 

One arduino/teensy will support 8 boards i.e. 128 i/o pins.  (So the result is not unlike the MidiBox Midio128 but with simpler, cheaper inter-wiring.)  Connection to the PC would be USB.  Since the Teensy allows changing the device name and ID, you can have a number of these busses running, each with it's own teensy as a unique Midi device.

Cheers
Graham

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Re: Midification and cabling (was Commercial Implications of jOrgan)

Peter Hanlon
Hi Graham,

I looked quickly at the I2C from Sparkfun. They certainly look fast, almost too fast if you had stray capacitance etc around the place. I am struggling a bit wondering why you need all those I/O pins and multiple Arduino/Teensys. The scheme that I am running with should just need 1 Arduino and 64 pins for the whole organ. I think the difference might lie in the end connections. I am physically connecting the C2 ’switch’ for the upper manual to its mate on the lower manual, and on the pedal, and for any nominated stop. The four entities are separated by being on separate buses. The buses then connect to individual Arduino pins, which are dynamically set high impedance input, or LOW output, and the individual bits for that bus are read out (C2-C7). There is total flexibility in the software to then assign midi channels to buses or sections therein. 

The original Schober wiring interestingly had the same connection of C2 Upper to C2 Lower via the terminal block, and also to Pedals via the Tone Generator boards, but of course the application is totally different.

I will have a look at the Teensy project too. I haven't got any source software publicly available, but will send you a copy for interest.

Peter

On 3 May 2015, at 10:07 pm, Graham Wykes <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 02/05/2015, at 9:15 PM, Peter Hanlon wrote:
 I have been using my 1970 Schober organ in a MIDIfication project, and am definitely getting there. I think that there is scope for significant simplification in ribbon cabling/buses using the Arduino.



I too am modifying a Schober.  I have had an Arduino (matrix) scanning the keyboards for a number of years. However, I am intending to switch to the Teensy++ as the MIDI implementation is better IMO. 

I also have a Teensy++2.0 scanning 32 pedals. The entire project (with code) is on the Miditzer forum at http://forum.miditzer.org/viewtopic.php?t=3034 (you might  need to join the forum to see it)

As fas ar cabling goes, I have been studying the possibility of using Sparkfun I2C breakout boards.  (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8130 ) These give 16 i/o pins with communication over a two wire interface.  I'm hoping I will be able to place each board locally to the 16 stops it services with the I2C bus wires and two power supply wires daisy-chained between each board.  With the arduino/teensy sitting somewhere near near the physical middle of the bus, distances shouldn't be a problem. 

One arduino/teensy will support 8 boards i.e. 128 i/o pins.  (So the result is not unlike the MidiBox Midio128 but with simpler, cheaper inter-wiring.)  Connection to the PC would be USB.  Since the Teensy allows changing the device name and ID, you can have a number of these busses running, each with it's own teensy as a unique Midi device.

Cheers
Graham
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Re: Midification and cabling (was Commercial Implications of jOrgan)

Graham Wykes
Hi Peter

The main purpose for going with something like I2C is ease of wiring.  There would only be 16 short local wires from the breakout board to switch or LED.  Wiring the I2C bus and power then becomes easy.

I would use multiple Teensy boards where they needed to be functionally different.   I would definitely use a matrix scanner for the keyboard/piston stack so that the debounce time could be tweaked for shortest possible delay and speed of scanning.  My scanner scans an octave at a time (12 inputs) with the sixth octave having the top note, then 11 pistons for that manual.  3 manuals gives a 12 x18 matrix.  Extra pistons could be added in groups of 12 if desired using just 1 extra pin on the controller and the existing 12 input lines.  I went this way because I am using Yamaha keyboards as the Schober's were not reliable and there were only two.

Stops don't need to be scanned as quickly so I would tend to separate that function out.  The need to have stop control would also determine the strategy as the MIDI would be bi-directional and I would rather that was taken care of by a controller that was not having to be busy scanning keys.  Because I will be using LED indication to edge light clear acrylic stop tabs, the I2C has the advantage of being able to drive LEDs directly.  I may end up with a hybrid setup by matrix scanning the stop switches and using I2C to control the LEDs. 

I have a separate pedal scanner simply to keep the wiring local with only a USB cable needed to travel from the pedals and swells to the computer.

I also like to design with independent sub-assemblies so that fault finding can be done by disconnecting correctly operating units and concentrating on the faulty section only.

(I could rave on about network topologies as I am teaching a networking topic at the moment - but I won't subject everyone to that.)

Cheers
Graham



On 05/05/2015, at 8:21 AM, Peter Hanlon wrote:

Hi Graham,

I looked quickly at the I2C from Sparkfun. They certainly look fast, almost too fast if you had stray capacitance etc around the place. I am struggling a bit wondering why you need all those I/O pins and multiple Arduino/Teensys. The scheme that I am running with should just need 1 Arduino and 64 pins for the whole organ. I think the difference might lie in the end connections. I am physically connecting the C2 ’switch’ for the upper manual to its mate on the lower manual, and on the pedal, and for any nominated stop. The four entities are separated by being on separate buses. The buses then connect to individual Arduino pins, which are dynamically set high impedance input, or LOW output, and the individual bits for that bus are read out (C2-C7). There is total flexibility in the software to then assign midi channels to buses or sections therein. 

The original Schober wiring interestingly had the same connection of C2 Upper to C2 Lower via the terminal block, and also to Pedals via the Tone Generator boards, but of course the application is totally different.

I will have a look at the Teensy project too. I haven't got any source software publicly available, but will send you a copy for interest.

Peter

On 3 May 2015, at 10:07 pm, Graham Wykes <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 02/05/2015, at 9:15 PM, Peter Hanlon wrote:
 I have been using my 1970 Schober organ in a MIDIfication project, and am definitely getting there. I think that there is scope for significant simplification in ribbon cabling/buses using the Arduino.



I too am modifying a Schober.  I have had an Arduino (matrix) scanning the keyboards for a number of years. However, I am intending to switch to the Teensy++ as the MIDI implementation is better IMO. 

I also have a Teensy++2.0 scanning 32 pedals. The entire project (with code) is on the Miditzer forum at http://forum.miditzer.org/viewtopic.php?t=3034 (you might  need to join the forum to see it)

As fas ar cabling goes, I have been studying the possibility of using Sparkfun I2C breakout boards.  (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8130 ) These give 16 i/o pins with communication over a two wire interface.  I'm hoping I will be able to place each board locally to the 16 stops it services with the I2C bus wires and two power supply wires daisy-chained between each board.  With the arduino/teensy sitting somewhere near near the physical middle of the bus, distances shouldn't be a problem. 

One arduino/teensy will support 8 boards i.e. 128 i/o pins.  (So the result is not unlike the MidiBox Midio128 but with simpler, cheaper inter-wiring.)  Connection to the PC would be USB.  Since the Teensy allows changing the device name and ID, you can have a number of these busses running, each with it's own teensy as a unique Midi device.

Cheers
Graham
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