Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on" message

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Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on" message

jOrgan - User mailing list
I guess I am missing something fundamental regarding handling of midi messages in jOrgan. How does one engage/disengage a stop in response to a midi message?

...matthew...

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Re: Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on" message

jbeach2646
Depending on whether you are referring to the Midi messages within jOrgan
for stops within a division, or whether you are referring to the interface
of a physical organ console having MIDI capability
with stop tabs or drawstops which you wish to have engaged or disengaged,
the MIDI messages might be different.  Within jOrgan itself, the Midi
messages are visible for all the stops on a disposition
in the Construct Mode of jOrgan.  Click on a stop and and the Element window
will show the stop, the References Tab for which will show the rank
associated with the stop.  Click on the Rank of the References tab and the
Messages for that rank will be shown on the Messages Tab.  You will notice
that the Message for "disengaged" is "set 176, set 123," and for "engaged"
it is "set 176, set 121."
The other messages for "engaged" in the Messages Tab identify the Bank and
Preset Number of the stop in the Soundfont itself.  These are visible in
Polyphone Soundfont Editor.   I believe the "Set 192,
set nn" (engaged) is proprietary to jOrgan and identifies the stop within
the division in jOrgan, but am not absolutely sure about this.  Someone else
may be able to correct me if I am wrong and explain the meaning of the "set
192, set nn."

For messages which would interface a physical organ console having midi, the
interface hardware used or the organ manufacturer's OEM specifications
should specify what the MIDI message has to be
for a physical stop on a given console.

John Beach

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Walworth via jOrgan-user
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 5:55 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Matthew Walworth
Subject: [jOrgan-user] Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on"
message

I guess I am missing something fundamental regarding handling of midi
messages in jOrgan. How does one engage/disengage a stop in response to a
midi message?

...matthew...

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Re: Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on" message

John Reimer
Administrator
In reply to this post by jOrgan - User mailing list
jOrgan - User mailing list wrote
> How does one engage/disengage a stop in response to a midi message?

Matthew,

I take it that what you are wanting to do is to get a jOrgan disposition to
recognise when you operate one or more stops or combinations in your organ
console, and to get the stops or combinations in that disposition to react
appropriately from now on.

If I am correct, then your task is much simpler than going into Construct
Mode and looking for messages which may or may not be meaningful to you.
jOrgan already has the ability to do all the hard work for you. It has a
feature called the Customizer. (Click on File, then on Customizer.)  In fact
I would assume  you have already used the Customizer on its first “page”, in
order to get jOrgan responding to notes you play on the keyboard(s).

To get jOrgan to register the MIDi messages which your device sends whenever
you operate a stop switch or combination piston, you must go to what is
usually the third page of the Customizer, where you will see a whole list of
the stops and combinations which that particular disposition has provided.
Some dispositions will have more than one such page. At the top of the page
there is a “Device” line. At its right-hand end there is a scroll-down arrow
which you should click in order to select the particular MIDI interface you
are using. (This is what you had to do on the first page of the Customizer
in order to set up the keyboards.)

To get jOrgan to react to those stops and combinations, you have to set each
one up individually. Choose any stop, find it in the list on the Customizer
page, click to the right, on its Activate cell, and then turn the stop on.
Do the same for Deactivate, and turn the stop off. In the case of
combination pistons, you only do the Activate. Repeat these procedures for
the other stops and combination pistons. (There is also provision for Toggle
actions, but I am confining my remarks here to the more usual situations.)
Make sure you save the disposition so that all your work is not lost.

John Reimer




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Re: Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on" message

jbeach2646
John R.  Thanks for your explanation.  I use a Yamaha UX-16 Midi Cable
between the Artisan Instruments Micro Midi (organ)  retro-fit hardware
interface and the PC with jOrgan.  Consequently,  that is what is identified
in jOrgan for device input, in my case.
I assumed that commercial organ consoles equipped with MIDI would need some
kind of stop "mapping" software (such as "Organ Assist)  and that the
physical stop tabs or draw stops would not be identified by jOrgan and
assigned or assignable to a virtual stop in a jOrgan disposition.   I am
glad to know that I was wrong and that jOrgan receives and transmits more
than just "note-on/note-off"
messages.

John Beach


-----Original Message-----
From: John Reimer
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 12:30 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Activating a stop or combination from midi "note
on" message

jOrgan - User mailing list wrote
> How does one engage/disengage a stop in response to a midi message?

Matthew,

I take it that what you are wanting to do is to get a jOrgan disposition to
recognise when you operate one or more stops or combinations in your organ
console, and to get the stops or combinations in that disposition to react
appropriately from now on.

If I am correct, then your task is much simpler than going into Construct
Mode and looking for messages which may or may not be meaningful to you.
jOrgan already has the ability to do all the hard work for you. It has a
feature called the Customizer. (Click on File, then on Customizer.)  In fact
I would assume  you have already used the Customizer on its first “page”, in
order to get jOrgan responding to notes you play on the keyboard(s).

To get jOrgan to register the MIDi messages which your device sends whenever
you operate a stop switch or combination piston, you must go to what is
usually the third page of the Customizer, where you will see a whole list of
the stops and combinations which that particular disposition has provided.
Some dispositions will have more than one such page. At the top of the page
there is a “Device” line. At its right-hand end there is a scroll-down arrow
which you should click in order to select the particular MIDI interface you
are using. (This is what you had to do on the first page of the Customizer
in order to set up the keyboards.)

To get jOrgan to react to those stops and combinations, you have to set each
one up individually. Choose any stop, find it in the list on the Customizer
page, click to the right, on its Activate cell, and then turn the stop on.
Do the same for Deactivate, and turn the stop off. In the case of
combination pistons, you only do the Activate. Repeat these procedures for
the other stops and combination pistons. (There is also provision for Toggle
actions, but I am confining my remarks here to the more usual situations.)
Make sure you save the disposition so that all your work is not lost.

John Reimer




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Re: Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on" message

jOrgan - User mailing list
In reply to this post by John Reimer
Thank you. This is exactly what I needed. I am using TouchOSC on a spare iPad to control jOrgan and this was the piece I was missing to get it working.

...matthew...


> On Oct 19, 2018, at 10:30 PM, John Reimer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> jOrgan - User mailing list wrote
>> How does one engage/disengage a stop in response to a midi message?
>
> Matthew,
>
> I take it that what you are wanting to do is to get a jOrgan disposition to
> recognise when you operate one or more stops or combinations in your organ
> console, and to get the stops or combinations in that disposition to react
> appropriately from now on.
>
> If I am correct, then your task is much simpler than going into Construct
> Mode and looking for messages which may or may not be meaningful to you.
> jOrgan already has the ability to do all the hard work for you. It has a
> feature called the Customizer. (Click on File, then on Customizer.)  In fact
> I would assume  you have already used the Customizer on its first “page”, in
> order to get jOrgan responding to notes you play on the keyboard(s).
>
> To get jOrgan to register the MIDi messages which your device sends whenever
> you operate a stop switch or combination piston, you must go to what is
> usually the third page of the Customizer, where you will see a whole list of
> the stops and combinations which that particular disposition has provided.
> Some dispositions will have more than one such page. At the top of the page
> there is a “Device” line. At its right-hand end there is a scroll-down arrow
> which you should click in order to select the particular MIDI interface you
> are using. (This is what you had to do on the first page of the Customizer
> in order to set up the keyboards.)
>
> To get jOrgan to react to those stops and combinations, you have to set each
> one up individually. Choose any stop, find it in the list on the Customizer
> page, click to the right, on its Activate cell, and then turn the stop on.
> Do the same for Deactivate, and turn the stop off. In the case of
> combination pistons, you only do the Activate. Repeat these procedures for
> the other stops and combination pistons. (There is also provision for Toggle
> actions, but I am confining my remarks here to the more usual situations.)
> Make sure you save the disposition so that all your work is not lost.
>
> John Reimer
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://jorgan.999862.n4.nabble.com/jOrgan-User-f999863.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user


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Re: Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on" message

Brian Sweetnam
I missed this post while searching.  I need to do this as well, on my
home-midified Yamaha E5 console organ.  

On the console, there are plenty of momentary normaly open switches.  The
original tabs are also wired on the console.  The encoder I use, can send
note-on and note-off messages, and it also has connections for 64 fader
inputs.

I will ask more questions here soon............

Brian.



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Re: Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on" message

Brian Sweetnam
So I managed to get that working now.  I can activate the 'toys' for as long
as I hold down the button.  Perfect operation.  

However, to activate and de-activate a stop with simmilar momentary normally
open switches, seems to be a problem.  This is because the stop is only
activated for as long as I hold down the button, which really is not
practical at all.  I would like to find a method using these same switches
to work as follows:

When I press the button the first time, the assigned 'stop' should come on.
When I press the button again, the stop should be deactivaed.

Since my console has mostly momentary normally open switches, this is the
method I will have to use.

Is this possible in jOrgan, and advice please?  



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Re: Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on" message

John Reimer
Administrator
In reply to this post by Brian Sweetnam
Brian Sweetnam wrote
> On the console, there are plenty of momentary normaly open switches.

Brian,

These can be used with a Toggle action (push on, push off). The Customizer
page provides a third cell for such action.

John Reimer




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Re: Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on" message

jbeach2646
In reply to this post by Brian Sweetnam
Brian,   " When I press the button the first time, the assigned 'stop'
should come on.  When I press the button again, the stop should be
deactivated."   What you describe is the "default" ("straight") action for a
stop with "duration" set to "Until Deactivated."   For "Action" with respect
to a stop in jOrgan, you have a possibility of one of seven choices.  You
should be able to find the Action and Duration you
want from the choices available.  You can change Duration to a numeric
value.

In putting in a search for jOrgan Tutorials by Bill Skees, I have found that
the links are invalid and that on the jOrgan Wiki, they have been crossed
out.  Are they still available for download for beginners
or folks just wanting to be able to reference them for informational value?
I have all four volumes of those tutorials and can provide them to anyone
who wants them.  They are 13.2 Megabytes in size, total for all four and so
can not be posted as attachments to a posting in this forum or on the jOrgan
User list.

John Beach



-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Sweetnam
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 2:45 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Activating a stop or combination from midi "note
on" message

So I managed to get that working now.  I can activate the 'toys' for as long
as I hold down the button.  Perfect operation.

However, to activate and de-activate a stop with simmilar momentary normally
open switches, seems to be a problem.  This is because the stop is only
activated for as long as I hold down the button, which really is not
practical at all.  I would like to find a method using these same switches
to work as follows:

When I press the button the first time, the assigned 'stop' should come on.
When I press the button again, the stop should be deactivaed.

Since my console has mostly momentary normally open switches, this is the
method I will have to use.

Is this possible in jOrgan, and advice please?



-----
Regards,

BrianS
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Re: Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on" message

Brian Sweetnam
John,

I am proposing pressing a physical button on the console.  It is a normally
open momentary switch.  I've checked an the stop in jOrgan is set up as you
described it above.

I would want the stop to toggle upon receipt of subsequent 'note on'
messages.  I can't use the 'note off' message in this case.

Brian.



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Re: Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on" message

John Reimer
Administrator
In reply to this post by jbeach2646
jbeach2646 wrote
> In putting in a search for jOrgan Tutorials by Bill Skees, I have found
> that
> the links are invalid and that on the jOrgan Wiki, they have been crossed
> out.  Are they still available for download for beginners or folks just
> wanting to be able to reference them for informational value?

JohnB,

The jORGAN DISCOVERY website (http://jorgan.info) provides new links to Bill
Skees' Tutorials. They worked when I last tried the links. I have pointed
out to Bill that the bookmarking feature which they contain no longer seems
to be working, and I made the suggestion to Bill that it may be because they
are now being hosted on Dropbox. I have had a similar experience with pdf
files I have placed on Dropbox, and I suspect that Dropbox uses some
compression methods which have the effect of disabling such bookmarks.

John Reimer




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Re: Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on" message

John Reimer
Administrator
In reply to this post by Brian Sweetnam
Brian Sweetnam wrote
> I would want the stop to toggle upon receipt of subsequent 'note on'
> messages.  I can't use the 'note off' message in this case.

Brian,

I'm a bit rusty on this now, but many years ago I successfully used the
Toggle provision with some pistons. I hope that it also works with stops. I
suggest that you try to set it up using the Customizer page, but instead of
clicking on the Activate or Deactivate cells, click on the Toggle cell, and
then press the button and release it after a moment or two. Then report back
here on what happens.

John Reimer




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Re: Activating a stop or combination from midi "note on" message

Brian Sweetnam
John,

I think I need some new spectacles.  I am as eager and enthusiastic as
always.  I did not even notice the tiggle cells.  It is exactly what I need.
So, I can use all my rocker switches and pushbutton switches.

I'm having some great fun here.

Thank you JohnR, Rick, and everybody else, for opening my eyes to the
customiser.  It as solved all my problems.

Brian.



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